SRU ORAL HISTORY
"SLIPPERY ROCK UNIVERSITY: SIXTY YEARS OF HISTORY"
INTERVIEWEE:

MR. CARL WOODLING

INTERVIEWER:

DR. JOSEPH RIGGS

29 JULY 1991

R:

Can you tell us about your early recollections?

W:

Of Slippery Rock? Yes, I would be glad to. Well, I'm going to
s tart back when my wife came here. I think the nice
thing to do would be to start and tell you what I did for
her, in memory of her, at the time she died. My wife was
secretary to Dr. Entz and Dr. Houk. Dr. Entz was president fo r
four years and Dr. Houk was president for ten years, but she had
worked for Dr. Entz. Dr. Entz came in 1929 as Dean of Instruction,
and she came i n 1930, and worked for him through his time as
Dean of Instruction, Director of students and then he became
president in 1942. So she went along with him as his secretary
until 1946 when he retired, and then she was secretary to Dr. Houk
for ten years. Then she worked a short time for Dr. Weisenfluh
who was president. Then she worked for Mr. Dodds, who was
Director of Student Teaching. She retired in 1959. I went with
the college in 1951 as the laundry manager and I was there until
I retired in 1972 . At her death, I talked to Dr. Aebersold and
I gave a memorial of $5,000 in memory of her in English and
English education. Then every year on her birthday which is

(2)
W:

May 22, I give $500. At my death there's supposed to be
$10,000 that goes in that fund. So here's where I started.

In 1940 I met my wife and I came to Slippery Rock just as a
visitor and had dinner at the Penn Grove here with Dr. and Mrs.
Entz and I met Dr. McMaster (President of the College). We were
married in 1941 and shortly after we were married, Dr. McMaster
committed suicide in the study in the residence. The reason, they
said, that he had committed suicide was because he had some kind
of disease that his head swelled and there was no cure and he had
commited suicide. So at his death Dr. Jaarsma was Dean of Instruction and Dr. Entz had gone in as Dean of Students, but the Board
of Trustees felt that Dr. Entz would be better, knew more about
the college because he had been there longer. He was president
down at California State Normal School before. But he was Acting
President from November 3, I think, around election day, till
January. But in the meantime Pearl Harbor came in December.
There were quite a few candidates for president but the Board
felt that Dr. Entz could carry the college during the time of
the war because they only had about three boys. They
had about 150 girls, but only three boys left. So he took over
in January and he was ready for retirement. He was 62 then, but
of course he stayed until he was 67. So he stayed and the war
ended in 1945 and he retired in January of 1946. The town and

( 3)

W:

the Board were very much disturbed that he was leaving, but he
said he felt a younger man should be in there to take care of the
younger students, the boys coming home . So Dr. Houk came and
he was there for ten years. He was very nice. Louise worked with
him. She liked him very much. He died in January of 1989, and I
still hear from his wife because we were very good friends. Then
in 1989 they planted a tree by the McCandless Schoolhouse in his
memory and Mrs. Houk was here at that time. She is 91 years old.
Dr. Houk would be about 86 . He was younger . They have two
children and the boy lives in North Carolina and the girl lives
in Connecticut, I think. So we were very close to the Houks. We
spent quite a bit of time in the president's residence when he
was there. Then when Mrs. Houk came back, they gave her a tour
and I went on the tour but Dr. Aebersold gave me a tour before
that. I have visited the residence of Dr. Aebersold two or three
times and he has been here, him and his wife, for dinner a couple
of times. I like them very much. They are very nice people.

R:

Yes. They are very nice.

W:

Of course, this is nice for me as a retirement home because I'm
able to furnish everything here except the carpet and the
drapes. Everything else I have is what I brought . Now these
pictures are of Old Main and the Chapel. An art teacher and
her class gave those sketches to Dr. Entz when

(4)

W:

he retired in 1946 and he died in 1957 and she died in 1964.
She willed those prints to Louise. So then when Louise passed
away I brought them up here and had them framed and put up.
I have willed them to a cousin. That's where I got those. The
old Chapel was torn down in 1970, and of course Old Main is
still here. The history of the chapel. The alumni had given
quite a bit of money to save the chapel and Dr. Watrel wasn't
in favor of it and it was torn down and the money was taken.
Watrel used the money down at the new Thompson Field to build
a building so he could have his friends or the Board to sit there
and look at the games. Shortly after he left the building sank
a little bit and pretty near went down. Then of course they had
to fix it up. But that's how that building was there.

R:

There was a lot of controversy.

W:

And of course Thompson Field originally was where the Field House
is. That was Thompson Field. Well then they built the new
Thompson Field down there. Mrs. Thompson is still living.
Mr. Thompson died in 1968. She is 98 years old and she is up
at Orchard Manor. I haven't been to see her for a while, but
she is still living. This book that I have here was
published in 1952 and they have all the ex-faculty that were
still living at that time. This picture here is Dr. Eisenberg
and Dr. Miller followed him and then of course McMaster died
and Dr. Entz followed him. Then I have another book here

(5)

W:

that has a picture of Dr. Morrow who was the first president.
He was the first president from 1889 to 1890, and Dr. Maltby
came and he was here till 1916. Professor I. N. Moore was
acting president for a year. So that gives all the ex-faculty
that were living at that time .

R:

This is a wonderful book.

W:

Well, I've always been a historian.

R:

Joseph Mc clymonds? Was that Allan's father?

W:

No. Joseph Mcclymonds would be Allan's cousin. He was a teacher
at the Laboratory School. He's retired now.
In 1939 they had the fifty year annive rsary and this book tells
everything.

R:

This is a wonderful thing that they compiled here.

W:

I think so.

R:

We are trying to interview as many people as we can so that we
can get the last thirty or forty years sort of straightened out .

W:

Well, my wife came in 1930 but a lot of this history I picked up
see, from way back when it started. I've enjoyed doing that.
I always go to Alumni Day luncheon. I don't go to the Homecoming,
but I go to the Alumni luncheon and I go to the Christmas Dinner
they have. The Dickens Dinner. It used to be the Madrigal
Dinner and I go to that every year in December as long as I'm abl e
to go. I enjoy being active, knowing the college. I don't
know too many faculty that are left any more.

(6)

R:

Joe Marks knows you.

W:

Oh, yes. Joe Marks. We went to the same church. He knew me
real well. He's teaching math now.

R:

Yes, exactly.

W:

I generally entertain him and his wife once a year.

R:

He said that he saw you from time to time.

W:

He went to the hospital to see me. And then I knew Ed Walsh.
And of course I sort of renewed that friendship when Lois came
here and she told me about him. But I went to the dinner that
we had. See every year I get a new student to support. My
student was there and I went to the tea they had and I met my
student and Mr. Walsh and his wife there. The first student I
had was a Mrs. McCullough. She was a married lady with three
children and a husband and she was here and she graduated in
1988. Then next I had a boy that was here for two years and
he's graduated and gone. Then I had two girls and I'm getting
a new one this year but I have to check up. We're not too sure
who she's going to be yet. But of course Bruce Rossiter gets
them for me. Of course I know Bruce quite well. Then I got
Bruce in the Rotary here because he lives up here, and I like
Bruce very well.

R:

Have you met Dean Zuzak who lives here? Charles. Dean of
Arts and Sciences. He lives over near the old hospital.

W:

Oh, he does.

( 7)

R:

Just around the corner.

W:

No, I don't know him.

R:

You knew Joe Stahlman?

W:

Oh, yes.

R:

We've interviewed Joe. I was a scoutmaster with him a long
time ago.

W:

I

see. Yes. I know Joe and I knew Joe's son. But not too well.

Joe's son has just joined the Masonic Lodge that I belong to
over here. But Joe, I knew him well.
R:

I think he mentioned you when we did our interview. He told so
many stories,

W:

you know.

Yes, he remembered me. He came to Slippery Rock to work, I think,
in 1949.

R:

Exactly.

W:

And then, of course, I came in 1951 and of course I was quite a
bit older than Joe. But he was a very nice young man. See he
became superintendent after Conklin left. He became superintendent of grounds and buildings and then there was another man came
in after. Park brought a man in. You know, Park was the Acting
President.

R:

Oh, yes. I knew him well.

W:

He was from Mansfield, I think. He brought a man in. Of course
I didn't know Park, but I did see him at the hundredth anniversary
in 1989. But Park brought another man in and I forget his name. He
was in charge of buildings and things. What was his name? He was
a pretty good friend of Dawson's. He came from Mansfield.

(8)

R:

Steve, something. He came as the Vice-president for Adminstrative
Affairs?

W:

I think so.

R:

Yes, yes. He was a historian originally. I'm sorry the name
doesn't come.

W:

But anyway, I had him for lunch a couple times here with Bob
Dawson. Of course, he was one of the ones that built the, was the
instigator in building the faculty room in North Hall.

R:

Park?

W:

Park.

R:

Yes. I served on that committee.

W:

Park was the president and he brought this man here and I can't
remember his name.

R:

I'm sorry. His first name's Steve. He's a tall, redheaded fellow.

W:

Yes. That's right. He lives right down here on this street here.
He sold his house since I've been here. He also was the instigator of fixing the court at North Hall. That beautiful job.

W:

Because the old court had a lake, well, it was a fish pond but he
had that all fixed up. It was wonderful.

R:

The staff center has been a wonderful addition.

W:

Oh. Yes.

R:

President Park had a committee working on that for two years.
But he didn't open it because the time didn't work out and then
when President Reinhard came he told him that everything was
set for the staff center and then they opened it that fall. It
has been a marvelous success.

(9)

W:

Of course, I remember Reinhard. I wasn't too well acquainted with
him but he did go to the Presbyterian church some. Of course, he
left. He left in 1984 and Bob Aebersold was the acting president
for a year and then he became the president just before my wife
died in 1985. He wrote me a very nice letter and said that he
had understood she had been the secretary. Then we went from
there. Spring of 1986 I gave the memorial and that's when I
started going to the Alumni's and everything.
I know Dr. Smith the English teacher, but not too well. Little,
short fellow. He taught English. I think he's still there yet.

R:

Bill?

W:

Bill Smith. Then, of course, the other English teacher. I think
he retired last year. The Indian.

R:

Oh, Mohan Sharma? Yes, he retired last year, and Joe Stahlman
retired last year.

W:

Yes. Joe Stahlman. I knew he retired last year.

R:

I retired two years ago.

W:

Who took Joe Stahlman's place?

R:

Oh, dear. I don't know the person's name because I was already
gone.

W:

I see. I don't either.

R:

Jack Weller retired before Joe, and Jack was sort of Joe's
assistant.

W:

Yes. I remember Jack. I remember him well.

(10)
R:

Yes. He's in Florida. He was just in town.

W:

Yes. I remember Weller. There's another one there that I met
leaving Dr. Smith's office there last winter. Man by the name of
Harvey Brady, I think. He worked with Joe when Joe was there and
he also worked a little bit for Bowler and then he worked for
Conklin. Is Van Conklin still in Pittsburgh do you know?

R:

I don't know the answer. I knew the Conklin family a little bit.
But that was some time ago.

W:

When I first knew of Slippery Rock, Mr. Glaspey was Superintendent
of Grounds and Buildings and he was a graduate of, what's the
college down in Lewisburg?

R:

Bucknell.

W:

Bucknell. He was here a good while. Then he retired when Dr.
Entz left and they brought Howard Harper in from Pittsburgh. I
forget where he graduated from. He was superintendent of grounds
and buildings. Then Lee Bowler took over and he was there quite
a good many years and then Conklin came as his assistant. Then
when Bowler retired Joe was the assistant. Of course, Conklin left
then Joe became the superintendent.

R:

They had a Colonel Hamby?

W:

Colonel Hamby was there. I don't know what his capacity was.

R:

And then George Sorg.

(11)

W:

I didn't know George Sorg.

R:

He was a retired Navy commander. He was in that administrative
post that had to do with maintenance and buildings and building
projects.

W:

Yes. I have heard of him. Well, I know Colonel Hamby was too,
wasn't he?

R:

Yes. Exactly. I think he was Mr. Sorg's predecessor or about
the same time.

W:

He was before, I think. I know a girl that was a secretary
down there. Did you know her? Her name is Jean Kaiser.

R:

Oh, I know Jean very well.

W:

She worked for Colonel Hamby.

R:

She's my neighbor. She lives right around the corner from
me.

W:

She's not very well, I guess. She's been sick they tell me.

R:

She hasn't been well for some time.

W:

No. I knew her husband. He's very nice.

R:

Oh, Bill. Bill is a wonderful fellow.

W:

Bill's a wonderful fellow. Of course, you knew Colonel Guthrie?

R:

Oh, I knew Colonel Guthrie very well. He helped send one of my
sons to Brazil.

W:

Well, you see, he was in the college. He taught in the college
for a while.

R:

Colonel Guthrie did?

(12)
W:

Colonel Guthrie did during Dr. Weisenfluh's administration and
then when Dr. Carter came , they made him retire. Did you
know Walter Barber?

R:

No. I didn't know him.

W:

Well, his wife still lives in Slippery Rock. Walter Barber
was in the science department. Tom John. You know him. He
was in the science department. He still lives in Slippery
Rock. Then there was, well Albert he died, and, of course,
A. P. Vincent. They were before you. But there's a Dr.,
another teacher in the science department that was still there
a couple of years ago. Oh, what was his name?

R:

Smith?

W:

No. This man I think had been head of the science department
for a while.

R:

Carl Dresden?

W:

Yes. That's it.

R:

Yes. He just retired, I think, last spring.

W:

Dr. Waldron was the old head of the science department. He
retired in 1950, I think. He lived up in Maine. He just
died here about a year ago. He was 98, I think. When he
retired Dr. Ware came as head of the department and then
Dr. Ware left and A. P. Vincent was the head and then when A. P.
Vincent retired Albert was there and then Albert fell off a
cherry tree and was killed. Walter Barber was acting head

(13)
W:

of the department for a while. A very good friend of mine, and
Dr. Ware was too, a very good friend of ours. I think
Dr. Dresden came after that. Who's head of the science department
now?

R:

Well, there are four or five departments but they are under Dr.
Zuzak, the dean that lives here in Grove City, dean of
Arts and Sciences. Then they have biology, chemistry, physics.

W:

Oh, yes.

See, the old science hall that was built in 1940 was

right down there, you know, was right across from the East Gym.
R:

Yes.

W:

Then, of course, they built the Vincent Science Hall for Dr.
Vincent. The big one down there.

R:

The other one is now psychology and it's called Behavioral
Science.

W:

Yes. That's right. Now the Maltby Library is an office building.

R:

Yes. It's a counseling center primarily.

W:

They call it Maltby building yet?

R:

I think they call it Maltby Counseling Center.

W:

I think so. See the new library is named for Matilda Bailey,
an English teacher.

R:

Oh, yes.

W:

Did you know Ken Harris, the other Ken Harris?

{14)
R:

Yes. I know both of them. I knew Ken Harris, the elder, quite
well. We worked on programs together in the early 1970's.
So I knew him for about ten years before he retired. Then I
was on the team that interviewed and brought in the new Ken
Harris.

W:

The new Ken Harris. The new Ken Harris is in theater, isn't he.

R:

Oh, yes.

W:

The other one was in English. See, Ken Harris' wife was Ruth
Glaspey. And her father had been the superintendent of grounds
and buildings and then Ruth Harris taught in the high school for a
while. But my wife when she came to Slippery Rock, her family
had lived in Florida and they lost everything they had and her
father was a school man. He left in 1924 to go to Florida when
they had the big rush in Florida and he went down there and
gave up teaching. He bought a store and in 1926 they had a big
hurricane and he lost everything he had. My wife had graduated
high school down there and she was going to the University of
Miami and they lost everything they had, so she had to come back
to Pittsburgh. So he sent her to Duff's Iron City College
in Pittsburgh, a business college, and then she worked for a
Dr. Sprague who was an engineer in the Bessemer Building. And
the depression came and, of course, she lost her job and she
had a hard time finding anything. So she had an aunt who lived
over here in Forrestville, so her and her mother came up to

(15)

W:

visit the aunt and she called Mrs. Glaspey. The reason she knew
Mrs. Glaspey was because her father, Louise's father, had gotten
Mrs. Glaspey her first teaching job in Pittsburgh or somewhere
here. Anyway, she called her and asked her if she knew of an
opening at the college in the offices, and she said she would find
out from her husband. She said her father got me my first
teaching job so I'll try and get her a job. They went back to
Pittsburgh and then they got word to come. So they came up to
Glaspeys and he took her over. At that time Dr. Eisenberg did all
the hiring regardless. Dr. Entz was Dean of Instruction but he
didn't do the hiring. So she went over there and Dr. Eisenberg
came out of the garden. They had big gardens and his hands were
dirty and he said, I can't shake hands with you but you're experienced in education. I'm not going to ask you to write a letter.
You just come to work the day after Labor Day. So she went to
work for Dr. Entz the day after Labor Day and there she stayed.
She worked there 29 years. She told her mother she would only
stay in that small town one year because she liked Pittsburgh, but
she stayed 29 years.
I'm from Pittsburgh, too. I'm from down around Sewickley, Glenfield. Of course, I came up here after the war. I had
worked for Sterling Varnish Company down in Haysville. I did
laboratory work and I went to the Army and I was so full of that
paint and stuff and all that smell that you had in those days. so

(16)
W:

I came out of the service and worked for the Veterans Administration in Butler, the hospital, from 1945 to 1951 and they asked
me to come up and manage the college laundry. The man that was
there had died. So I came up there and I worked there until
1972 when I retired. That's how my wife got her job and of course
she thought a lot of Ruth and Ken Harris because she knew them
so well.

R:

Oh, yes. They were lovely.

W:

Lovely people. But I have met the other Ken Harris and his wife
when I go down to church. We were very good friends of Reverend
Peterson's. You know him at the Presbyterian Church?

R:

At Muddy Creek?

W:

No. Slippery Rock.

R:

Yes.

W:

Then my wife didn't have quite enough social security because
they didn't start on social security in the state of Pennsylvania for state employees until 1956. So she still had about
three or four years to make up. So she worked for Dr. Peterson
at the church and then she worked for Alberta Patterson at the
real estate office for a little while till she got enough quarters. But she got a good retirement from the state of Pennsylvania
but of course the social security helped quite a bit too. But I

(17)
W:

had good social security because I started social security when
it came out in 1936. And then I had three years credit in the
service. But when I worked for the government in Slippery Rock,
I didn't have it until 1956, but then I had good social security
as well as a retirement.

I don't know that there is any other faculty that I know. Oh,
I know, well he's retired now, Jim Egli. And, of course, I
know Bill Lennox and Sally because I've worked with Sally in the
Alumni Office. And I knew Bill Meise. He hadn't been very well,
I guess.
R:

Someone told me that he was not doing well.

W:

Well, they said he was doing better. I don't know whether he
is or not.

R:

We haven't interviewed him but we are trying to get to do that
because he was around for a good while.

W:

Oh, yes. He graduated from Slippery Rock. His first wife was
Mary Margaret Duff and she was very prominent in the Alumni.
She worked in the Alumni Office. She died, I think, in 1979.
I don't know his second wife.

R:

I've seen her but I don't know her.

W:

She was a secretary, I think, before she married Bill. She
has a couple of married children. Bill has too. But anyway,
they had the Maree McKay fund retirement so they opened a new

(18)
W:

one for Maggie Meise and Carl Laughner. So I generally give
$100 a year to the Maggie Meise and Maree McKay funds. Of
course I knew Carl Laughner but I really knew Maggie better and
of course Maree McKay for years.

R:

Yes. Carl was in the speech department.

W:

He was in the speech and later he was public relations. He's a
very nice fellow.

R:

Oh, yes. I see him often.

W:

I was down at the Alumni this year and of course I saw him and
his wife, Norma, and Sally. Sally does a very good job in that
Alumni.

R:

Oh, yes. They are going to publish, I think, some of these
interviews in the alumni magazine.

W:

Well, I sort of would like to have mine published.

R:

Yes. I'd be delighted.

W:

I have all this material. Now this here was done by Shirley
Cubbison. Do you know Shirley Cubbison?

R:

Yes. I think so.

W:

Well, she lives in Gettysburg now, but her husband was Bill
Cubbison.

R:

The principal.

W:

The principal. Shirley graduated from Slippery Rock. Now
Shirley's father-in-law lives here, just the next two rooms from
here. He was a teacher and a principal up at Franklin and Bill

(19)
W:

came from Franklin, but Shirley I don't know where her home was.
It was down in the middle part of the state. But she's moved
to Gettysburg now with her mother and she interviewed me
in 1988. I don't know whether you want me to read it.
Want me to read it?

R:

Well, perhaps I could get a copy of it.

W:

Oh, I would like to give you a copy and I'll have to have some
copies made and I'll see that they make some copies.

R:

Well, good. We could put it as an appendix to this interview.

W:

Yes. I would like that.

R:

Because we are going to put this interview in print and then
get it back to you for whatever editing.

W:

Well, I'll talk to Sally Lennox and see what they can do.
I'll tell you, I think Dr. Watson has some of these. I can
contact him and ask him to give you one.

R:

Well, I don't know where he's gone now.

W:

He'll be back by August 12 because he is going to speak for me
for Lions Club down here.

R:

We can xerox copies at the Bailey Library, because that is where
we are doing them. Most of our interviewing is done there.

W:

Well, I just don't want to lose this.

R:

Oh, my, no. We wouldn't let that happen.

W:

If you would like to do that. If you would rather do that than
have me read it all.

(20)
R:

Then I would get a chance to read it a s an appendix to our
interview and that will work fine. We're going to print this
interview and then we'll just use this as an appendix. I'm
going directly to the library to take the equipment back when I
leave, and I could xerox it and bring it right back to you.

W:

I would appreciate that.

R:

Well, as a matter of fact I could make several copies.

W:

Yes, you could make me an extra half dozen because Lois would like
to have one.

R:

I'm sure she would.

W:

Okay, that'll do fine. Well, I wanted to tell you about this
because the girl that typed that for her, I know that there a
couple of words there sort of missing. They're not just exactly
missing but it has, "I first came to Slippery Rock in May of
1940, and then it has, "where I visited friends," and the girl
sort of, well, you'll see anyway.

R:

Do you remember the student body and the size of the student
body when you came?

W:

You mean when I came to Slippery Rock? I can tell you the size of
the student body in 1930 when Louise came. It was during the
depression and they had an enrollment of 900 because there were
a lot of boys that couldn't get work. They came to college. And
then, of course as I said, during the war it was down to about 100
and after the war it went up to around 1200 when the students came
home. What is the enrollment now?

(21)
R:

It's something over 7,000.

W:

I thought it was. Well, I think, when I left there in 1972 it
was probably around ...

R:

4700 or 4800?

W:

Something like that.

R:

I came there in 1971.

W:

Yes. Well, I left in 1972. Did you retire last year?

R:

Year before last.

W:

This book here, well, this is the alumni book. This was the
spring of 1961. But the one I was reading to you about 1952
and that had quite a few ex-faculty. This book I remember my
wife had. Now this here, in here I have all the Sax's. There's
a couple Sax's that date back to 1936. Then we had them up
pretty well to 1959 and then there's some we don't have. I think
I have 1966, 1967, and 1968 of those and I keep all that stuff
around here. It takes a lot of room to keep this stuff but I love
it.

R:

Were there any particular experiences you had with the administration while you worked there or do you remember any from your
wife's tenure?

(22)

W:

She went there as I said in 1930. Dr. Eisenberg had been president
seventeen years when he left. Dr. Morrow stayed one year. He was
Anne Lindbergh's grandfather and you know who Anne Lindbergh is?

R:

Yes.

W:

She's still living. He only stayed a year and he lived in
the old North Hall or whatever it was at that time, and they
fired him because he served liquor at his granddaughter's
wedding.

R:

Is that right? Oh, she was married there?

W:

His granddaughter was married. Not Morrow but one of his
granddaughters was married there. Then Maltby came a year
later and Maltby stayed 23 years. I understood, somewhere in the
his years there, would get a ladder and climb up to the girls
rooms at North Hall and find a boy in there. Oh, they said he was
something. I never saw the old North Hall. It was gone.
It had burned in 1937 and my wife, of course, remembered it.
The new one was just finished when I came in 1940 but the
old South Hall I knew and the Chapel. Anyway, the old North
Hall was originally a frame building. The North Hall that they had
later, they just built around the wooden building and of course
when the fire came it burned everything out. It was brick veneer.
Well, I know one thing, and it mentions it in this copy that
you're going to have copied. Dr. Eisenberg hired Maree McKay,

(23)

w:

who was the registrar in 1922. She was from Waynesburg.
She graduated from Waynesburg College. Dr. Eisenberg was a
Methodist minister and he hired Maree McKay because her father
had been a Presbyterian minister and he hired her in 1922 and
she had quite a bit of control. Well, he just thought she was
it in the office and everything. But Dr. Eisenberg was fired
in 1934 by Emma Guffey Miller who was no relation to Dr. Miller.
He was fired, and they brought Dr. Miller in, Charles Miller,
whose picture you saw, and Charles Miller didn't let her have her
own way. He put her in another office and he remodeled the office
on the first floor for himself. She didn't like Miller. She liked
Dr. Entz. She did not like Dr. Houk. She never liked any of the
presidents. But anyway, Louise said Dr. Entz told her when she
started to work for him, "Now when I send you over to Maree McKay
for something and she snaps at you you snap right back at her and
you'll never have any more trouble."

So she did and they were the

best of friends. She snapped at Dr. Entz and he snapped back at
her and they were the best of friends. But Dr. Houk and Dr. Miller
couldn't handle her. They didn't know that. A couple of the
teachers, there's a Mary Lou Fisher, she is in Florida, retired,
and her and Teresa Pletz had said that Dr. Entz was salt of the
earth. When he retired, they described him as salt of the earth.
He graduated from Albright. He was originally from Williamsport.

{24)

W:

We visited them many a time after he retired and he was just a
little short Dutchman but he was firm. Dr. Eisenberg had all
the girls go to work at eight o'clock in the office and they
worked till five. Then Dr. Miller changed that.

He had them

go in at eight-thirty and be through at four-thirty. Dr. Entz
always kind of wanted Louise to go early and stay later if he
needed her and she did. But she didn't always because she said
it wasn't always necessary. But he didn't mind her sitting
around. Of course, she had been there so long. He was a very
nice man and his wife was a very nice lady. She was very
gracious. Dr. Eisenberg was jealous of Dr. Entz. He never wanted
Dr. Entz. See, Dr. Entz left California. He sort of got out
through politics and he left California and went to New York and
got his masters degree. But he had an honorary doctors degree
which none of the rest of them had. The others had all
earned theirs. But any way, he was to go to Edinboro. Dr.
Eisenberg thought that he was to go to Edinboro. Did you
ever hear of Dr. Leonard Duncan, not Bob Duncan, Leonard
Duncan?

Well, he was dean of instruction under Dr. Houk.

We never knew it until after they came here. Mrs. Duncan said,
"We were supposed to come here in 1929 instead of Dr. Entz
but Harrisburg made Eisenberg take Dr. Entz and of course Dr.
Duncan stayed in Pittsburgh."

But he never liked Dr. Entz.

He was jealous of Dr. Entz. Then Dr. Entz said to him the

(25)

W:

year before he got fired, if you want to do something, you
ask Emma Guffey Miller to be the speaker at this commencement,
in 1934 and he just flew up his hands. Well, he got fired.
But Dr. Entz tried to advise him but he wouldn't listen to him.
So he went to Shippensburg, Dr. Eisenberg, as dean of instruction
down there. He was there a few years and then he retired from
there and he preached down there. But anyway, he was so bitter
on Slippery Rock that when he came up to Stoneboro to see his
daughter, he went around so he didn't have to go through the
town of Slippery Rock. He never had anything to do with anybody in Slippery Rock. So he had a student, this student told
Louise and I this one time, that went to Shippensburg and
he had gone to Slippery Rock, and he told Dr. Eisenberg that
he had played on the football team at Slippery Rock. Well,
he said, "That's no credit to you. Don't you ever mention
Slippery Rock to me again." So he didn't. But that's the
experience they had.

R:

Did Mrs. Miller have him fired?

W:

Yes.

R:

She was on the Board.

W:

She was the president of the Board. She did quite a bit. She

Emma Guffey.

did a lot for the college but yet there were things she didn't do.
She was the instigator of Dr. Houk being fired, but Dr. Houk quit
of his own accord because he knew he was going to be fired. Dr.

(26)

W:

Miller, he quit of his own accord because she was going to fire
him but she never touched Dr . Entz. So when Dr. Entz was going
to retire, even before Dr. Entz retired, Mrs Entz had Mrs. Miller
and another Democrat up to see the residence . She said, now
this residence was built and it's yours because it was built
in your administration. She had them up there and she took
them for dinner at the dormitory. so before Dr. Entz retired,
Mrs. Miller said, I never had you out as my guest because I
didn't want to do you any harm, but it's alright now since you're
leaving. She had them out for dinner. She liked Dr. Entz but
all the rest of them she didn't.

R:

So she had enough power to remove them?

W:

Yes. She had enough power. Of course, Dr. Weisenfluh had been
a teacher here for a long time. Psychology teacher. Did you
know him?

R:

No, I didn't know him.

W:

He got the job from Dr. Houk. She just had him around her little
finger. She really ruled him. She couldn't rule Houk. Houk
resigned before she fired him.

R:

I wonder if she ever interfered with classroom teachers?

W:

Yes,she did with some of them. Dr. Blaisdell was fired. He was
an English teacher. She fired Mr. Heim who was a social
s tudies teacher. She got rid of him. I don't know just who
else. Some of the teachers were not very nice to Dr. Houk

(27)

W:

when he came. He came up from Pittsburgh and applied for the job.
Of course Dr. Entz was still here yet. Mrs. Houk told me this
since Dr. Houk's death, that he came up to apply for the job
and Dr. A. P. Vincent said, "Dale, you go on back to Pittsburgh
because I'm going to be the next president."

Well, he wasn't.

Vincent was a Republican, but they were all jealous, you know, and
Mrs. Houk said she wouldn't trust some of those people yet. If
she was Dr. Aebersold, she wouldn't trust some of them. So I
don't know what she meant by that.
R:

Then Judge Kiester replaced Mrs. Miller as chairman of the Board
but she stayed on the Board?

W:

Let's see now. He was a Republican.

R:

Yes.

W:

I think she stayed on the Board for a while. He was President of
the Board but yes I think so.

R:

He hired Dr. carter?

W:

He hired Dr. Carter, but Dr. Carter did something and so Kiester
resigned from the Board and then Emma Guffey Miller couldn't be
on the Board as President because she was a Democrat. I forget who
followed the President there, but Dr. Carter was there and Mrs. A.
P. Vincent was on the Board and the way it was, see, Dr. Weisenfluh, of course as I say was a Democrat, and when Dr. Vincent
retired in 1969 or 1959, Dr. Weisenfluh said, " I don't have to
retire. I'm the President at 65."

He had made Vincent retire

(28)

W:

at 65, so Mrs. Vincent got on the Board, see, and she fired
Weisenfluh. Her and George Kiester.

R:

While he was on leave of absence somewhere.

W:

Yes. Well, he took his leave of absence but he told everybody
he'd be back. Well, he didn't come back for the summer but when
he came back he found out he out he was through at the end of
the summer and Dr. Edwards who was Administrative Assistant for
Weisenfluh became Acting President. Well, they didn't want him
because he had worked for Weisenfluh. Then they hired Dr. Carter.
So Carter made Dr. Edwards get out of the house up here and
treated him terribly. Then Carter got in and well he wasn't too
well liked.

R:

He had a lot of troubles?

W:

A lot of trouble. In 1966, they had a student strike. He had a
lot of trouble. Then he got out and Bob Lowry was the Acting
President. He was a Democrat, I guess, because Dr. Roberts,
he's still in yet. He must be soon ready to retire?

R:

I don't know Jim's age. He must be in his early 60's.
He's back in the School of Education.

W:

He doesn't bother anything with the admininstration anymore, I
don't think.

R:

No.

Not at all.

W:

Because some friends and I were down at the Women's Center a
week ago and Jim and Ila Roberts were there and I introduced

(29)

W:

them to my friends. Anyway, as it was that Dr. Roberts should
have been the Acting President instead of Bob Lowry because he
had a doctor's degree and Bob didn't. Well, Bob was only in
three months and then Watrel came. But carter brought Roberts
here in 1966 but Watrel never got along too well with Roberts.
He accused Roberts of going down to Harrisburg and reporting
him. And then they hired Roberts when they fired Watrel and
of course Roberts was Acting President for a year. He didn't
get to be President.

R:

My understanding was that he had agreed not to apply for the
presidency if they would make him Acting President.

W:

Yes.

R:

That was a part of the agreement. I don't know that that is
absolutely true, but I was told that by someone, and that then
he went back on that and applied for the presidency, and that's
when they brought in Larry Park.

W:

Yes. They brought Park in.

R:

From Manchester for a two year interim.

W:

Mansfield it was.

R:

I'm sorry Mansfield, of course.

W:

Yes, I know.

(30)

R:

Yes. And then, I think, Jim Roberts stayed another year as
Vice-president for Academic Affairs, and then Aebersold replaced
him.

W:

Roberts took a year leave of absence then.

R:

Yes.

W:

Took a year leave of absence. Different people have said to me,
even friends of Roberts, that he would never have made a good
president. I haven't had much communication with him since I
retired because my communications are with Aebersold and that
administration, so I don't see much of Roberts. I felt that
just like some of the people did, Roberts was just a little bit
too wishy-washy to be president. He's a nice man and I think
he's good at his job, but there were certain people who just
idolized him, but even some of his friends have said, "well,
he wouldn't have made a good president."

R:

I remember Dr. Edwards. Everything I've heard about him was
he was very popular.

W:

Oh, yes.

R:

With the faculty. That he had a lot of support when he wanted
to be president, but the support wasn't on the Board of Trustees.

W:

No.

Did you know Dr. Harold Wieand?

R:

Didn't know him, but I know of him. He's in almost all of the
interviews.

W:

Is that right?

(31)

R:

Yes. He's talked about a great deal. He was a dean?

W:

He came here. Dr. Houk brought him in here just as he was
out of the service as a social studies teacher. Then Dr.
Weisenfluh made him Dean of Instruction, and then when
Weisenfluh was through why then of course Carter brought his
own man in.

R:

Then Wieand went to the chairman of philosophy?

W:

Yes. Philosophy. We always liked Wieand. He was a
Republican, but he did work sort of with the Democrats. He
and Dr. Houk became enemies. I don't know why but they did.
Did you know Bob Duncan?

R:

Yes. Quite well.

w:

I understand he has sold his house. I understand he lives
in Florida at least part of the time. I always liked Bob Duncan.

R:

He applied for the presidency.

W:

Who? Bob Duncan did?

R:

Bob Duncan. I'm not sure when. It was when Carter came.
I think Bob was one of the applicants. I was told that.

W:

He lived next door to us.

R:

The Barnetts then live in the house you had?

W:

Yes. My wife and I bought the house in 1946 when I came out
of the service. An old house and we fixed it all up and we
rented the second floor. Then later we sold it to a man by
the name of Stouffer and Stouffer sold it to Barnetts. I

(32)

W:

was in it once since Barnetts have it. But anyway, I built
a house up above that which Mrs. Evans lives in. Do you
know her?

R:

No.

W:

Well, her husband had been in the science department and they
separated, but she still lives in that house. She taught down
at Moniteau, but I don't know whether she's retired yet or not.
She was living in that house. We built that house in 195 7.
We got a good price for it. We sold it to Dr. Huzzerd and then
we bought a house right across from the old Buckham garage.
Do you know where Terry Steele lives?

R:

Yes.

W:

Well, it's right there . Joe and Molly Lisciandro. He
bought the house off of us, but we bought it from Huzzerds. We
lived there twenty years. I left there in 1985 when I came up
here and I sold it to Joe and Molly.

R:

Where there particular events or departments that the college
was well known for other than athletics?

W:

Some but it was always an athletic school.

R:

Yes.

W:

It's always been an athletic school . The English department
wasn't too strong until just the last year that Dr . Houk was
here. The English department was sort of a weak department.
The social studies was pretty strong and the science, but
of c ourse it was the phys . ed. Did you know Archie Dodds?

(33)

R:

No. I didn't.

W:

Well, Archie Dodds was head of the department and that has a
story too. He was a Democrat and he didn't like Eisenberg,
but anyway, he came here during Eisenberg's time, but he
was in the Lab School as phys. ed. teacher. I think it
was Dr. Gallagher who was an M. D. who was head of the
department of physical education who Dr. Eisenberg had.
Well then, when Dr. Miller came he fired Gallagher and put
Arch Dodds in there who did not have a doctor's degree, and
Arch was there for many years. Then when Dr. Weisenfluh
took over he put him over as director of student teaching.
He brought Dr. Paulsen in as head of the department who
didn't have any experience in phys. ed. He only stayed two
years, and then they had, I forget who he replaced, but, of
course, now it's now Bill Lennox as head of that. I don't
think he has a doctor's degree?

R:

No.

W:

But Arch Dodds had it all those years. We liked Arch Dodds.
He lived in our apartment for about eight years over at the
old house.

R:

They named a building for him.

W:

They named a building for him. He was a very good man and we
liked him. He was a Democrat, but he didn't like Houk. He
liked Dr. Entz. He thought there was nobody like Dr. Entz, and

(34)

W:

Dr. Miller. But he had a drinking problem after he went to
the service. It wasn't too serious. But anyway, the Board of
Trustees did not want him as head of the department when he
came back. Dr. Entz appointed him head of the department and
always stuck up for him. So Arch Dodds thought there was nobody
like Dr. Entz. Well, when Houk came, they didn't get along
too well. But he always stuck up for him, and Dr. Entz I don't
think ever drank a drop of liquor in his life or smoked, but
he supported Dodds. Because when the Entzes used to come to visit
us after he had retired, he always would go to see Arch. Dr.
Entz, when he retired, didn't want to retire in Grove City. He
said, I want to go back home to Williamsport and retire because if
I am too near the college, they'll say I'm nebby. So he got out
altogether. He'd come back to visit occasionally, and
he always visited us. Of course, we used to visit there.
Dr. Entz was really a wonderful man, and I support him. And
I support Dr. Houk, too, because he was good to Louise. He
was good to us all. I was hired at the college when he was
there.

R:

She liked her work then at the college?

W:

She loved the college. She loved being the secretary to Dr.

Entz even when he was Dean of Instruction, but she did not
care for Dr. Eisenberg. He hired her and all that, but she
felt that he was too strict. But Dr. Weisenfluh was the one

(35)
W:

that didn't treat her very nice after Houk left. So then
she requested that she go down and work for Mr. Dodds and
they got along fine together. But she retired because her
health wasn't too good, and she just didn't like Dr. Weisenfluh
because when he became President he told her, he was an
awful liar, I guess, that she could work for him. He didn't
know why she couldn't. He only kept her six months, and then
he said, "I want to sent you up to the library."

And, she

said, "Well, I don't want to work in the library when I
have to work at night." So he said, "Where do you want to go?"
She said, "Down to Mr. Dodd's office."

And he went down to

see if Mr. Dodds wanted her. He came back and said, "Yes. He
wants you tomorrow." They got along fine.
R:

That was fairly abrupt?

W:

Yes. But he was a very strange man. Now Maree McKay, the
Registrar, said that he was the biggest liar she ever knew.
She took nothing from him, either. He had an office back of
her office, and his door was always closed, and she just
opened it and said, "Norm, keep these doors open."

He was

afraid of her, I think. He did a lot of other things that
weren't nice. He had a music teacher by the name of Mrs. Arnold,
and she had been there for 33 years. Dr. Eisenberg hired
her and she was ready to retire in 1958. She did retire.

(36)

W:

So she went up to Dr. Weisenfluh's house one time to see
his son. She liked John. And of course, Dr. Weisenfluh
said, "Gladys who was the greatest president Slippery Rock
ever had?", and she said, "of course Dr. Eisenberg."
He was so mad he wouldn't speak to her for a while. She
had already retired. He couldn't do anything to her.
But he was a funny man. I got along fine with him. I had
no trouble with him.

R:

Did he go to another presidency when he left here?

W:

No. He retired.

R:

Weisenfluh?

W:

Weisenfluh was 65, and he had to retire.

R:

They got him a job somewhere else?

W:

He went to Elizabethtown for a year. Yes.

R:

Was that an interim presidency?

W:

No. I don't think so. I think he taught psychology down
there. He was a psychologist. He went down there for a year
and then he retired.

R:

A difficult job being president here.

W:

Oh, I think it is. It's been very difficult. Oh, yes. Look
at the presidents we've had.

R:

Yes, and the reasons for their going. Either fired or about to
be fired.

W:

Now I don't know about Reinhard.

(37)

R:

He didn't leave under a cloud that I know of.

W:

No. I don't think so.

R:

He got a better job down in Kentucky at Morehead.

W:

But it didn't last too long.

R:

No. He only lasted one year there and then they bought out
his contract and fired him. Then he went to Frostburg and he's
just been fired there.

W:

Oh, he has?

R:

Yes.

W:

Is he not old enough to retire yet?

R:

I wouldn't think so.

W:

Maybe not.

R:

Oh, I think he's mid-50's.

W:

Why was he fired there ?

R:

I didn't read the story but it was in a journal of higher
education, The Chronicle. He had had something to do with
the handling of funds, but I don't know the story.

W:

Well, you know, he was clamped on very hard when he came
to Slippery Rock. They had to pay for all their own entertaining.
The state didn't even give them a maid or anything, and when
he entertained, he and his wife and his mother-in-law lived
there, and they had to work. Do the entertaining. The state
wouldn't give them a cent . But, you see, Watrel spoiled it.

( 3 8)

W:

He had children and he had all thes e babysitters and he charged
them to the state. So when Watrel left well that just made it
terrible. But I think this Park was pretty nice fellow. He
was only there two years.

R:

Yes . I was very fond of him. I came in 1971 and I didn't know
Watrel nor Roberts very well because fundamentally a school
teacher doesn't have to play politics.

W:

No .

R:

I wouldn't know a Democrat from a Republican on that campus
now, but in the old days it was very differnt, and party
had something to do with it. Especially if you aspired to
an administrative position.

W:

Sure. But I'm afraid if Reinhard would have stayed he may
have gotten fired, I don't know. I thought he did a pretty
good job though. He brought Bob Dawson in here.

R:

Yes. I know.

W:

And he brought, I think, Matthews, too. Not sure about Matthews,
but he brought Bob Dawson. Don't you think the reason Bob
Dawson left was that he really wasn't Aebersold's man?

R:

Well, I think that's true. When a new president comes, they
have people that they have particular faith in, and people
they would like to put in place as their right hand, left
hand, their key people. I think that's kind of ordinary.

(39)
W:

Ordinarily, I think it is too. They brought Rossiter here.
I like Rossiter. You know Rossiter?

R:

No, I don't.

W:

He comes to our Rotary here. He's very nice man. I deal with
him through the memorial for my wife because that $500 goes to
his department. Then, of course, I get letters from Aebersold
thanking me and so on.

R:

Did you know Martha Haverstick?

W:

No. I guess not.

R:

Physical education.

W:

No. I didn't know her. I knew Martha Gault, who was the old
art teacher. She's retired in Florida. Did you know her?

R:

No. I didn't, but I know of her.

W:

Dr. Houk brought her here. We had Mr. McVitie who was
an art prof. Lillian Griffin was an old art teacher who had
been here since 1923. I think she retired in 1953, and she was
a good art teacher. She was from the old school. Gladys Arnold
was of the old school, also. Dr. Eisenberg would never hire
anybody that was divorced. He knew that she was divorced,
but he heard her story. So when he hired her he said, "Now, I
don't hire anybody that's divorced, but in your case I will."
Because she had educated her husband, and then he walked off and
left her. So she had to get a divorce. He kept her and he
paid her a good salary. Dr. Elder came here in 1926 and he

(40)

W:

came here to teach industrial arts, and they never had it, but
they paid him more money. So he and Gladys Arnold made more
money than some of the other teachers, and they were bitter at
them for years. And Dr. Elder did not have a doctor's degree
until 1942, because my wife was typing for him, but he was a
Ph.D. He retired in 1959, but Weisenfluh had sent him down to the
high school, and he lost a little bit of his retirement. They
never got along too well. But anyway, then Elder came up here
to George Junior Republic and was up here for the boys for up
to ten years, and then he retired from that. He's dead now, but
his wife's still living. But Dr. Elder, people didn't realize,
had a Ph.D. They had a nickname for him and they called him, Doc.
And people said to me he is not a Ph.D., and my wife said she
knew different and he was and he got the salary for it. See,
they had the old lab school, and the high school. Now the
Presbyterian church burned in 1948, and Dr. Houk let them use
the high school auditorium for church for a year and a half.
It's a state law that they can't use school buildings for church,
but the reason they did it was that when North Hall burned, the
church gave them their basement down there as a dining hall for
three months until they got a temporary dining hall. So they
just repaid whatever it was.
Well, I don't know. Is there anything else I can help you with?

R:

Well, we can copy that and I'll get that back to you.

(41)
W:

Yes. Well, I have something else here that may be of interest to
you. That's one thing I will say. You know when you retire
you lose interest in everything, but I have always kept up because
I'm interested in these things, and they help me a lot.

R:

Today is July 29. This is Joe Riggs interviewing Mr. Carl
Woodling at the Penn Grove Hotel Retirement Center in Grove City.

WOODLING INDEX
Gladys Arnold, 35-36, 39
Thomas C. Blaisdell, 26
President Robert Carter, 27, 28
Archie Dodds, 32, 33, 35
President John Edwards, 28, 30
President J. Linwood Eisenberg, 22, 24, 25, 36, 39
Walter T. Elder, 39, 40
President John A. Entz, 23-26, 34
Thomas Heim, 26
President Dale Houk, 23, 25-26, 31
Judge George Kiester, 27
Maree McKay, 22-23, 35
President Albert E. Maltby, 22
Emma Guffey Miller, 23, 25-27
President James Morrow, 22
President Herb Reinhard, 36-37
James Roberts, 28-30
Arthur P. Vincent, 27
Mrs. Arthur P. Vincent, 28
President Albert Watrel, 29, 37-38
President Norman Weisenfluh, 26-28, 35, 36
Harold Wieand, 30-31

Louise Woodling, 1-41