_,

RUSSELL MCCOMMONS

An Interview Conducted By
Dave Obringer

April 19, 1995

McKean, Pennsylvania

For the
Edinboro University of Pennsylvania

INTERVIEW:

Russell Mccommons (RMcC)

INTERVIEWER:

Dave Obringer (DO)

PLACE:

Mr. McCommons's home in McKean, Pennsylvania

DATE:

April 19, 1995

DO:

What I'll do is I introduce the tape first. Today is April
· the 19th. I'm interviewing Russell Mccommons at Mr.
McCommons's home in McKean. My name is Dave Obringer. It's
about two o'clock in the afternoon. Then that's all for the
introduction. That'll be fine for the tape. Could you start
by telling me how it is you got to Edinboro? You know, what
led you up to being here?

RMcC:

on May 26, 1916, shortly before noon, I turned in my books
and cleaned out my desk at the Albion Elementary School. Got
my report card, which was endorsed II Promoted to seventh
grade. 11 I returned to an empty house which had been home for
about seven years. When I went to school that morning, all
of our household goods and worldly possessions had been
loaded on Ray Thorton's dray hauled by two mules and were
alre ady o n their way to Edinboro . Shortly aft er l u nc h, why,
he piled my mothe r and five children into his ove rland-one o f about thr e e c ars in town--and we were on our way to
Edinboro. So that's how we got there. My mother had planned
the move with my oldest sister having finished the eighth
grade. Because at that time many would go from the eighth
grade into normal school. And that was the timing of the
move. My father had died six . years earlier in 1910. We
arrived in Edinboro, and Mother had made contact with
Harriet Chaplin, the secretary to Dr. Baker, through a
relative in Albion. And she became a good advisor and
friend. She said that although one could still enter normal
school after the eighth grade, spend four years an get the
normal certificate or diploma, she advised that my sister
go through high school first. She said, "Things are
changing. It would be more advantageous to go through high
school because this is probably the last year we'll admit
them out of the eighth grade of school." So that's how we
happened to land in town.

DO :

So a lot of your classmates were young if they weren't
college age.

RMcC:

Oh, no. I was only 11, not quite 12. I was 12 in the middle
of the summer, July 26th. So that first summer I had a
chance to do a lot of exploring, and the campus fascinated
me. I saw the tearing down of old North Hall which stood
behind Academy Hall and the Compton Buil_ding. It was a
three-story building, and you'd see the roof over Academy
Hall. That was torn down the summer of 1916. And Science

Russell Mccommons Interview - page 2
Hall, which was a building almost identical to Academy Hall,
which stood near the corner of what was then Haven at the
point on the circular walkway opposite Recitation Hall, that
was torn down a lso . And . I helped Mr. Snyder. I had nothing
else to do. I helped him carry r ~,,l ' flasks, test tubes,
petri dishes, Bunsen burners, and small stuff over to the
basement of Normal Hall which had just been fi t ted up as the
physics and chemistry laboratories. New construction, 1916.
He carried the big demijohns of sulphur and the nitric acids
there. And that building was soon down. I say, torn down,
because in those days instead of demolishing buildings, they
tore it down piece by piece and salvaged a lot of the
lumber. Some of the lumber from old North Hall and possibly
Science Hall still stands in three very small cottages at
the beginning of Lakeside Drive, just off of Sixth Avenue.
DO:

Oh, really?

RMcC:

A manual training instructor there by the name of George
Frost was also a carpenter, and he salvaged some of that
lumber and built those three cottages with that material.
Also a house on Water Street in which he lived, just next
to what we 'know as the La 6,,, ,,-r / House. He built that house
with that same lumber and lived in that for a while.

DO :

Wow! Were you ever inside of North Hall?

RMcC:

No, no. I was never inside it. But I was inside of Science
Hall as we were carrying the things out befo re they
destroyed the buil ding . Anot her th ing I noticed: Haven Hall,
apparently, was a rectangular b ui lding about the same size
and shape as Reeder Hall. It was a beautiful brown in the
front. I noticed that what was the south wing, next to
what's the old gym, apparently was new construction. I could
see a vertical seam under the ___ corner of the building,
almost indiscernible, but-- The mortar joining the brick was
almost perfect, but still tha t was in evid e nce. Two years
later it had compl ete ly disappeared ; you wouldn't k now there
had ever been an addit ion. The ground flo o r, I c oul d see
through the wind_ows along the walkway, was a concrete floor.
There were a bunch of c rate s and b oxes inside to begin with,
and a door at the east end . Righ t behi nd t hat , just east of
that, was a o ne - story building about, say, 25 feet square,
with a metal roof . And the doo r was slightly a jar. Well,
what was an inqu isitive 12 - year-o ld s upposed to do but go
inside? I pus hed the door open. In the far c o rner, northeast
corner, was a pile of fire woo d. There were four little
laundr y s t ov e s , stovepipes , going up through the roo f. And
on each one was a copper wash boiler. Ther~ were fou r twotub leve l ringer stands , two galvanized tubs o n ea c h stand.
In o ne o f the tubs was this old-fashi oned scrub board , zinc

Russell McConnn·o ns

DO:

. w Interv:i..e

page 3

r t time later the building disappeared.
ards. A sl'J.O .A,.nd I noticed inside the ground floor
scrub _b o e i t do~n •5 t
inside the door, was a large rotary
T~ey tor aaven, JU uch as commercial laundries used for
wing. of roachine ~ other laundry, two rotary ironers--we
wash:ng 50 eets an s--about a half a dozen modern washing
washing tnem mangl ~al f a do zen ironing boards each equipped
call7d
about. a iron. So apparently they had been very
m':"ch1.n~ 'e1ectr1.c. 1 that t ime. The last of the primitive
with. a. e up untl- d about the summer of 1916.
primit1.V abolish 8
stuff was
. e Edinboro had the power facility for
tnat t1.Ill d so that everybody would have hot water
Now, by
. iers an
running bOl.

heat.
. ier house that stood right at the end of
th y had a bO.l- driveway and past Academy Hall, straight
RMcC: Oh,
e uld be th7 t roaJ v;1hat .:~t befor~ 1 t at the end of the d!riveway . They had-in, J .
far rJ.gh three moderately-si zed boilers --I forget
Th;~. 1.;,tbere were h-P· boilers, something like that--in a
0
1
h tJ.~heY said, 4 trestle where they• d haul coal in with
w. a underneath a i t a own from what would have been the
ti~cks and dump -floor level. On the southw 7st part was the
t~estle at grou nd ,rheY ha:1 two Merck Electric generat<;>rs-ator room.
electric generators--powered by Skinner
i~~~r d.c. Merck ines- All made in Erie, 110V d.c. They also
. rocating eng a transverse--they used steam from the
~~cihat time had the generato:rs. With the modernization,
boilers to powerto a 1ow-pressure heating system. They used
they had changed from the generators to heat the buildings
the condensate ing the exhaust steam. And they had a
instead of w~ st where they could regular llOV a.c. power
transverse s:vn.tch at night after they shut the generators
froro the utility
when that was abolished. The brick srooke
down. I don't knO~snyder later in earth science class as a
stack there, Pop
out and by triangulation we measured the
junior, he took ~!ted the height, 100 fe et high. We came up
shadow and calcu
with 99.84 feet.
to quibble on that.
You
didn't
want
oo:
Haven Hall, here• s one thing where Dr.
R}fcC: That's right. ~ow, f Edinboro is in error. The north wing of
Vance's portraJ.t ;ining room and kitchen, -he reports it as
Haven Hall, th e . lding with student rooms on the second
a three-story bu~ooms and infirmary on the third floor.
floor and gue st I watched the building of the dining room
Never hap~ened. from the ground up. That was the summer of
and the ki~chen And 1ater Harriet Chapman told me that Dr.
1
17, I believe. ·ved a
call from Harrisburg that the
Baker had recei

("'

Russell McCo~mons Interview - page 4
appropriation for that building was cancelled, that wing was
cancelled. She said Dr. Baker was in shock. He couldn't
believe it. He called back Harrisburg. Yes, it's true. She
said the steel for the work, for the second and third
floors, was on its way out of Pittsburgh. They called the
steel mill to cancel the order, but it was already on its
way. She said they contacted the state police, and they
· flagged down the trucks around Mercer and sent them back,
sent the steel work back. The second and third floors were
never built, and they roofed over the first-floor dining
room and kitchen. And that was reportedly the most beautiful
school or college dining room in the Commonwealth. It was
beautiful.
DO:

You were in there?

RMCC:

Oh, yes, yes. Many times.

DO:

I understand that there were tables
tablecloths and you were served.

RMcC:

Oh,. yes, yes. They used some of the student boys as waiters,
and the table service was elegant. The school started--

DO:

How was the food?

RMcC:

Oh, excellent, excellent, excellent. They used ladies from
town as cooks. They hired them. And they had good home
cooking. It was wonderful. Couldn't be beaten.

DO:

I've brought with me--and you may not remember this, but
before, I guess .... This is a 1915 yearbook. There's a man
here who is named Harry Gracey, who was identified as the
steward and chef.

RMcC:

I didn't ·know him.

DO:

No?

RMcC:

No.

DO:

Okay.

RMcC:

What's that, 1915?

DO:

This is the 1915, that's right.

RMcC:

Yes. Hmm~. No, I don't know any of those people.

DO:

Well, that's a year before your time.

that

you ate with

Russell Mccommons Interview - page 5
RMcC:

oh, yes. Thought there might be a holdover.

DO:

Do you know if they grew any of their own food?

RMcC:

Yes. The new kitchen there had a big walk-in freezer, and
they had a large basement. And I don't know just what year
it was , but I remember that they out probably about where-let's see, what's the hall next to? Heather Hall, is that
the one next as you go past Academy Hall, that small girls'
dormitory?

.

DO:

Haven.

RMcC:

No, no.

DO:

No? No, that's over behind it.

RMcC:

It's a building that still exists there.

DO:

There's White Hall right behind it.

RMcC:

Oh, no, it's beyond that. Well, beyond White Hall and to the
east they did have large gardens. They raised a lot of
garden vegetables. And I remember seeing Amos Slee later
on, he was Building and Grounds, with the dump truck hauling
loads of potatoes from that field, and hauling them over and
dumping them in the basement under the kitchen for storage.
But they did raise-- They had fresh vegetab1es in season,
cooked in the kitchen, served in the dining room. And they
stored potatoes and other root -vegetables in winter.

DO:

They didn't have any livestock, did they?

RMcC:

No.

DO:

Okay.

RMcC:

Although one rather interesting thing: We lived for two
years on West Normal Street on the north side of the street
about midway between Meadville Street and the creek. The
second spring we noticed the whole lot was sinking almost
a foot. We inquired, what has happened? Well, didn't you
know? That's the cesspool for the normal school. They had
excavated a whole bu ilding lot, put pillars in, floored it
over by putting some dirt on top, and all the raw sewage was
dumped in there and overflowed into the creek. Needless to
say, we moved. [Laughter) Because we had our reservations.

DO:

Yes. Of course now the campus is much bigger, and it extends
farther--I guess it would be east?

Russell Mccommons Interview - page 6

(

RMcC:

East.

DO:

Okay. Where now is the lake, Mallory Lake, and the library
and the fieldhouse, what was there?

RMcC:

That was a swampland.

DO:

Just a swamp?

RMcC:

Just swampland. They cleared it out and enlarged the-cleared the swamp--to make a small lake there. But it was
just a small stream--I don't know where the headwater of
the stream was--running down through there and on to the
south. But it was swampland. The campus at that time, the
other buildings, were Normal Hall, Recitation Hall, Avon,
the gym, and Reeder, and of course Academy Hall which at
that time was called Music Hall because the music was over
in that department. That was old White Hall, near the __
house.

DO:

It was pretty compact there, huh? Who were some of your
teachers when you were a student here?

RMcC:

Well, when I first went there, I was in the seventh grade,
and that was in a white building over on High Street. It was
called the Model School. It was supported by the normal
school at that time.

DO:

It was on High street?

RMcC:

High Street. That's where the Methodist Church now is. It
parallels Meadvi lle St reet , just one block . It runs right
into the street past Acad emy Hall. Ab out midway between
Normal Street and Waterford Street was a large white
building. Four classrooms on the first floor, two classrooms
and an assembly on the second floor, two large basement
rooms. I didn't think much about it at the time, but
thinking about it later, the school board of many years ago
in Edinboro should 've g otten the leather medal for sewage
disposal. They moved the outhouses into the basement of that
building. They excavated a large pit below the level of the
basement floor on the street side of the building,
partitioned in the middle on the south side. That was the
boys' room. Three steps up t o a platform and six s talls that
emptied out into a pit underneath the building. I assume the
girls on the other side were in probably the same . How many
years that went on, I don't know. But they moved the
outhouse into the basement of that building.

DO:

Like indoor facilities then.

Russell Mccommons Interview - page 7
RMcC:

Right. I believe it was '35 or '36 when they got sewers up
in that area, got sanitary toilets in the building.

DO:

Well, was the ventilation adequate for this?

RMcC:

oh, yes. Yes, they had a large_ chimney up there that vented
the furnace as well as the toil ets . But I remember one hot
September day some of the older boys, a prankster, lighted
a piece of paper and dropped it down in there. (Laughter]
They had to close the school for the rest of the day because
the stink was horrible.

DO:

I'll bet it was.

RMcC:

one of the things I remember in seventh grade, Miss Pohl was
the drawing and penmanship teacher, as they called it in
those days.

DO:

Miss--?

RMcC:

Miss Pohl. She came in once a week. I can still see her
wire-rim glasses on the end of her nose. One day she came
over with a small pamphlet, copies of it for everyone in the
seventh and eighth grades in that one room. And she gave us
instructions as to what to do: put our names, but not to
touch it until she told us. She had a stopwatch . Years later
it occurred to me that I was a guinea pig. They were
apparently standardizing the first Army Alpha Intelligence
Tests. I learned later that when the war was imminent that
some of the top brass in the Army went to, I believe,
Columb ia University and contacted a couple of psychologists:
Furman and I forget all the others. They said, We're charged
with the responsibility of raising an army of about three
million men. We understand you have some sort of an
intelligence test. We'd like to see if that could be used
to classify them. They said, Well, that's an individual
test. Well, could it be adapted to a group test? Well, yes,
we think it could. So apparently they ada~ted that to a
group test,
and this was the
first printing,
the
standardization. Because years later some of the same
questions that I e,ncountered in seventh grade in 1916
appeared years later, in an intelligence test I took years
later. So I knew I was a guinea pig, and they were
standardizing their first group of intelligence tests, the
Army Alpha, I understand. That was the first one .

. DO:

RMcC:

So then you saw the school through the war, through World
War I.
Yes. Through World War I.

Russell Mccommons Interview - page 8

(

DO:

Up to the beginning of World War II.
have much of an effect on Edinboro?

But did World War I
•

RMcC:

Yes. My teacher, Ruby Anderson, married--his name was
Austin--just before he went overseas. And he was killed the
day after the Armistice was signed by a German sniper. So
that sort of shook up the town.

DO:

was this one of the Austins that descended from Nathaniel
Austin that built Academy?

RMcC:

That I don I t know. I have no idea. I didn't know him at all.
I knew that she had supposedly married him just before he
went overseas, and I didn't know anything about him. But all
I know is that we got word that after the Armistice a German
sniper shot him, and that sort of shook things up a bit.

DO:

I' 11 bet.

RMcC:

Also, Olivia Thomas, who lived right next door, and she was
the music teacher, she came once a week and gave us music
instruction. I still remember, she'd bring over classical
records; and with the old horn-type victrola, she'd play
"Traumerei" and-"Barcarolle, 11 and many of those. I've never
forgotten them. She gave us a real appreciation of music.
Got us through the eighth grade. Then I had the ninth and
tenth there. The last two years were over on campus. That
had been going on for several years. So on September 8, 1921
I set foot on campus for the first time as a student. The
normal school was very small. I don't think they had more
than a hundred students, and this was augmented, probably,
by 50 or 60 junior and senior high school--upper secondary
department. So I had normal school instructors give
instruction in the last two years. About mid-morning that
first day of school, I met a buddy of mine--he was a senior-as we were passing in the hall. He said, "Hey, Russ! We've
got mechanical drawing this year. They got a new art
teacher, Mr. Bates." We were right about opposite it then.
And he said, "He's in N-3. Go rap on the door. He'll take
care of you. Real nice guy."
So I met Mr. Bates for the first .time and enrolled in
mechanical drawing five hours a week. It wasn't long until
I was in all my spare periods, ten, 12 hours a week. I was
in there all the time. And he started the department with
one special art student, Gertrude Bensing, from Oil City,
a former student of his, one of his high school students.
The school code was amended in 1919 and required art and
music as part of the common branches, along with English,
history, math, science, and all. And all elementary teachers
were required to take two courses--one Art 1, which was
drawing, painting, and design; Art 2 was handicrafts,

Russell Mccommons Interview - page 9
elementary industrial arts. Well, that was the backbone of
the department those first two years. But, other than that,
Mr. Bates ran a three-ring circus. Electives, you could take
whatever you wanted. One person this, two people this. And
everything was going on in a multi-media classroom, N-3:
Mechanical drawing,
lettering,
pastel,
oil painting,
ieathercraft, bookbinding, you name it, everything.
DO:

This was all going on at one time in one classroom?

RMcC:

All at one time. All at one time, yes.

DO:

And Mr. Bates would go through them all?

RMcC:

He'd put us all in there. There wasn't anything he couldn't
do or demonstrate, barring none. He was gifted, he was a
genius. More than a genius. Well, it so happened that it
wasn't long until--he called me "Bus" because, for some
reason, everyone at Edinboro whose name was Russell was
called "Bus," nicknamed "Bus." My wife hates it. She'd hate
it if she knew I was using it even here. It wasn't long at
all before, Bus, will you show So-and-so what to do next?
or will help you So-and-so. So it wasn't long until I was
an unofficial assistant instructor, helping here and there
lettering.
I was mechanical drawing/lettering mainly,
although other things as well that I'd seen going on. So the
end of that year, the summer school, he brought in Anna J.
Lamphere from North Adams, Ma·ssachusetts, a friend, a
professional acquaintance of his, to teach the _ _ _ , the
industrial Art 2; he handled the Art 1. I don't know how
many there were, but the enrollment was substantial.- He had
gone out--he'd talked to the high school classes when the
flood came in. He really expanded the school.

DO:

So Waldo Bates recruited students?

RMcC:

Oh, yes. Yes. As a matter of fact, about that time, Edinboro
was threatened with closing--twice. He literally saved the
school from extinction. And one of those occasions--! don't
know which one it was--Edinboro was scheduled to be a
juvenile . detention/rehabilitation center for
juvenile
offenders. It was already planned in Harrisburg. That was
it. Well, I think that was the second year. Well, the summer
of '21--it was when Miss Lamphere was there--he published
a small pamphlet, "Art Education for Guidance of Elementary
Schools." There may be one of those in the archives, I hope.
In September of 1 21 we moved up to the third floor of_-_
Hall; it was in the process of renovation. He designed the
whole thing, gave the information to the architects and all.
They put skylights in the roof. One main partition. There
was one very large room, and another about half the size of

Russell Mccommons Interview - page 10

(

it. And they had little partitions dividing the two.
September 1921--I guess about the middle of the morning-I had taken a class in advanced mechanical drawing. I'd
milked him practically dry. He had me studying ·mechanical
drawing, French's _____ drawing, field architectural
drawing. I was just eating it up. I was way ahead of anybody
else. Of course we worked at individual speeds, see. So in
September 1 21, the first day up in the art room, he had a
class. on one side of the partition there was a high school
mechanical drawing class. On the other side he handed me the
roll book and said, "Here, check the attendance, and keep
your eye on this; I'll pop in once in a while." I didn't see
him the rest of the year. I had the class, I taught. _ _
did all the work, see. So that summer the enrollment,
largely due to his efforts, swelled to 5~1 students. An
unheard of number. These were the things that saved
Edinboro.
There was a third attempt to close Edinboro--I don't
recall the year--when they gave Indiana the right to grant
bachelor's degrees in public school art, originally at
Kutztown and Edinboro, east and west ends. Well, what was
happening, they were determined to close Edinboro--someone,
I don't know where or how. And apparently the question came
up: What's keeping Edinboro alive? Waldo Bates in the art
department. Get Waldo Bates. How do we do it? Kill the art
department. Give Indiana the right to grant degrees. Starve
them out. It didn't work. We became stronger. In 1923-well, that summer--Miss Lamphere and Mr. Bates published
another guide to elementary • teachers for elementary
industrial arts in the elementary school. That was the
second publication. [Change to Side B of Tape)
... the backbone of the department, the volume. The
first year Gertrude Bensing, one student, special art. He
developed the summer school in '21. Two elementary teachers,
who were caught in these classes, they'd spotted them: Nina
Gleaton of Edinboro; she'd been teaching in a one-room
school. And Paul ____ M'Sherra. They heard of the art
department's · special art students, so we had three that
second year. The third year, Elsie Shottey, a girl from
Erie, transferred from Pratt Institute in New York to
Edinboro, and Ruth Fulton Turner transferred from Carnegie
Tech in Pittsburgh to Edinboro. A graduating class of five,
1923; the first three-year class graduated five of them.
-Well, Mr. Bates did another thing then. He took the
pictures, the plates, from the yearbook, of those five
people. He had them printed in a brochure with a resume of
each of them. He sent that to every school district, every
school superintendent, in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania,
advertising the five students. But advertising Edinboro.
That continued until 1935. Every class. As a result, we drew
students from Philadelphia, Scranton Wilkes-Barre area,

Russell Mccommons Interview - page 11
Harrisburg, all over the state, and some few from out of
state crowded in. That was one of the big things that he
did. He not only advertised her graduates, but he advertised
Edinboro because they weren't supposed to advertise outside
of their service area. [Laughter)
DO:

That was a way of getting around it.

RMcC:

He got around it. The whole state was blanketed.

DO:

That's pretty clever.

RMcC:

Oh, another thing. I think it was the first summer upstairs,
'21. He was gone for three days. I c:overed some of his
classes while he was gone. Nobody knew why or how, but a few
days after he got back, he told me that he'd been to New
York City. He had been offered a position as education
director of the Metropolitan Museum of Art. He turned it
down. He said he felt he could do more by training teachers
to teach public school art than he could in a situation of
that sort where he'd be dealing with a few. So he dedicated
his life, really, to Edinboro. Going back to just before
Christmas 1921, I'd usually meet him at the front of the
building outside the principal's office. He'd pick up his
mail. We'd climb the winding stairs up past the clock at the
front entrance. Oftentimes we'd half run to break the
monotony at his count of one-two-three-four, one-two, up the
stairs we'd go. Shortly before Christmas a telegram in the
mailbox. We got up to the head of the stairs. Ruby had
opened it up, and he passed it over for me to read. "Waldo
F. Bates ... " And so on. "DUSETTE'S COLORBLIND. STOP. DO YOU
STILL WANT HIM? STOP. SIGNED ROYAL BAILEY FARNHAM, HEAD OF
THE MASSACHUSETTS SCHOOL OF ART." Wait. That was in 1 22.
Just before Christmas in '22. I had been teaching that
mechanical drawing and lettering class and filling in. Well,
he went in the office, and he typed the report and showed
it to me. He had a lot of faith in Dr. Farnham because he
apparently knew him quite well. The telegram read: "IF YOU
THINK DUSETTE'S THE MAN FOR US, SEND HIM. SIGNED WALDO F.
BATES." So Dusette arrived about mid-January '23. Young,
rash, immature. One of his classes, the second-year class-Jimmy Townley, Bert Morgan, Clark Thomas, Linder Peterson,
four or five girls. On the first day he gives them
instruction, Jimmy Townley said, "Would you mind repeating
that?" Dusette says back, "What's the matter? Don't you
understand English?" Jimmy says, "Yeah, we understand the
kind of English we speak around her~. But you don't talk so
we understand you." Dusette started down with clenched
fists, and old Jimmy he's pretty stocky, and he got up to
meet him half way, and he backed off.
Well, that didn't work, so he· started wooing them

Russell Mccommons Interview - page 12
another way. He was living single then in a little house on
West Normal Street on the south side of the street just next
to the creek. He had taken the roll, · given the class an
assignment, taken the boys down to his pad. Home brew and
cigarettes. Jimmy Townley told me later, he said, "I had my
first home brew and smoked my first cigarette down at
Dusette's place that year. 11 Jimmy later became _ _ _ Oil
-City on graduation. So it was a real pain, those first two
years. He might have redeemed himself in later years, but ...
DO:

Well, that leads me up to about the right time period. I was
going to ask about Prohibition.

RMcC:

About what?

DO:

Prohibition.

RMcC:

Prohibition ... Well, that's another thing. In 1922 Charles
Larkin was still superv isi ng principal. There was a problem
of petty thievery going on around the campus, around the gym
and other places. Stealing small amounts of money here and
there. Dr. Crawford--Mister Crawford then--and Mr. Larkin
got together and-- Oh, by that time they'd brought the rest
of the higb school over on the campus. Seventh grade through
twelfth was one campus that last year, 1 23, right after I
graduated. They hired a private detective to see if they
could solve this problem. His name was Roy Hong. He later
became county detective of Erie County. Well, he was
enrolled as a special arts student, taking show card writing
and lettering. Well, I was probably, besides Mr. Bates and
Mr. Larkin and Mr. Crawford, I was probably the only one who
knew this. Because I had charge of the stock room, and if
you set up an account you could have anything you wanted,
and I'd just charge a special account. Well, he was there
for several weeks, long into the wi nter. His report, when
he'd finished and was ready to go, was this: "You won I t
solve this problem unless you solve the liquor problem."
Practically every other house in Edinboro was either making
home brew or they had a still in the basement. And Dusette•s
house was one of those on the list.

DO:

His being the home brew, I guess.

RMcC:

Home brew. Later, dandelion wine. Well then, Dusette came
about mid-January of '23. His field was design, and it
became obvious pretty early that he wasn't going to be able
to contribute much to the public school art program because
he couldn't draw, he couldn't see color, although he got by.
How he ever got through Massachusetts School of Art, I will
never know. Because one summer years later-- Well, Mr. Bates
always had a class in outdoor painting in oils, and he loved

(

[Laughter]

Russell Mccommons Interview - page 13
to do that. That was his favorite. It wasn't indicative.
It's the only time I've ever known that he attempted to put
anyone in their place. He assigned Dusette to that class
that summer. How can anyone paint or draw if he can't see
colors? ___ the students. Dusette got empty tubes. He had
his wife mix paints according to the Munsell Classification
System, which is the American classification of color. The
·normal red was R5, 5/5, indicating the hue, the value, and
the chroma. She mixed the paints, put them in tubes, sealed
up the bottom of the tubes, and labeled the tubes, and he
marked his palette. How can anyone paint anything when they
can't see it? He came in after the first day with a
painting--I never saw such a gosh-awful mess of purples and
grays and mud. You can't i~agine it. Well, that was the last
time he ever painted with his class when he took them out.
He told them how to do it, but he never touched the thing
again. I can still see that pa inting . Awful!
Well, a little earlier - -I think this was the summer of
1 23,
toward the end of the summer school--he had contacted
one of the northeast canning companies to make a design for
a label for their tomatoes. Mr. Bates and I were up in the
art department in the one west room. He came up right after
he'd picked up the mail. He had this envelope which he
hadn't opened up. He opened it up in front of us. Apparently
he was going to show off something. Pulled out this print.
·He'd put a dimension on the top and on the bottom of the
thing, apparently for some reason I don't know, but the
whole thing length of the thing. Well, the printer
misinterpreted it, so they pulled the picture as a trapezoid
label. And a brilliant, fla mi ng red tomato--I never saw a
tomato that color in my life. He didn't see the color, but
he saw the shape. He said, "Oh, they don't know what they' re
doing." And he slapped it back in the envelope, and that was
the last after that.

(

DO:

He was there for quite a long time.

RMcC:

Oh, a long time, yes. How he got by, I wil.l never know
because one class, a couple of fellows, a friend of mine
Paul Davids and John Davis, they roomed together. And Dusie
had his favorites. He didn't like Paul for some reason. Paul
later became art supervisor for Westmoreland County; at the
end of 40 years he was all over Westmoreland and Allegheny;
student teacher supervisor for Seton Hill. Real individual.
Dusette didn't like him for some reason or another.
Apparently didn't think he was good. One morning Johnny was
sick--he had a cold or flu or something--and he didn't go.
So Paul brought his painting in for evaluation. He came in,
and he put his down first, and a little later on he put his
own. Duse_t te saw him put that painting down·, and he thought
it was Paul's. Ripped it apart. Co~ldn't find anything good

(

Russell Mccommons Interview - page 14
in it at all. Terrible. Horrible. Who could paint anything
like that? Paul didn't say anything. Went on. Finally came
to Paul's. He praised that and said, "Well, whose is this?"
Paul said, "That's mine." "Hey, I thought that was yours
down there." "No, that's. Johnny Davis's. He's sick; he
didn't come . in this morning. I brought it in for him." Well,
so Dusie went back for a reevaluation and found everything
good in that painting.
Another occasion, that same group--my sister was in the
group, a fellow by the name of Wayne Martin ( _ _ _ Martin
they called him), a very talented fellow except he was a bit
eccentric. They had as one of the assignments was design the
Christmas seal of the Tuberculosis Society. In those days
they had competitions--high school and college--and then
they send them into the county level. My sister designed
one. It was--I can still see it--it was a ship in a foaming
ocean, and the billowing sails with the double-barred cross
on it. Dusie ripped that apart. Called it an Ivory Soap ad.
Ridiculed it. Some months later when the-- Oh, this was at
the county competition. She got first prize in the county
competition--a couple of dollars, I guess. Wayne Martin got
second, a dollar or so. Some months later when the
out, there was that design, almost identical. Well, the kids
in the class spotted it. "Hey! We think you owe (they called
her Mickey) Mickey an apology. There's her Ivory Soap ad."
He said, "I don't know anything about it. I still think it
looks like an Ivory Soap ad."
Well, one other occasion: This really was something.
He severely criticized Abe Martin 's painting or something.
Abe shot back with , "What's the -matter? You colorblind?" He
didn't know be was . Oooohhhh. The next thing, a couple of
girls ran in: "Mr. Bates! Mr . Bates! Come quickly! They're
fighting!" (Laughter)
DO:

It was a fist fight?

RMcC:

Oh, they got to blows.

DO:

Wow!

RMcC:

Oh, and another thing now. About that same year, yes, I was- June the 1st-- Oh, the latter part of May 1923, I got this
letter from Dr. Crawford. "Dear Russell--" I lost the letter
way back, but I remember it said, "Dear Russell Edward, I've
been authorized by the trustees to offer you employment of
instructor in the art department, effective June 1, 1923.
Your duties will be assigned by Waldo F. Bates, Jr., head
of the art department.'' A few other 1 i ttle things. I don't
recall. · Signed, "C. C. Crawford." I had been unofficially
teaching in there, and apparently they ~ealized that Mr.
Bates was going to need some help which he wasn't going to

Russell Mccommons Interview - page 15
get from ousette. So he added three years in mechanical
drawin·g. That was the requirement for a normal school
instructor, was three years in your special field. So I
became a member of the facu lty as an instructor . in
mechanical drawing two years before I graduated from the
department.

(

DO:

But you had like a normal certificate or something?

RMcC:

No, you didn't have to have a n_ormal certificat~ in those
days. Normal school instructor, Just so he had a high school
education. Because they were training elementary teachers.
Three years' experience in your chosen field: history,
science, whatever it is . So they gave me credit for three
years of mechanical drawing and named me as instructor of
mechanical drawing. Well, I was teaching other things as
well. But that put me in the back door, see.

DO:

So you were on the faculty--

RMcC:

And a student at the same time.

DO:

And a student at the same time, right.

RMcC:

That's why I wanted to see if-- It got in the yearbook, but
I got in the faculty list of 1 25 or about '24.

DO:

I'll send you a copy.

RMcC:

Okay. But it was in the yearbook, the picture, as an
instructor of mechanical drawing. So that's one thing. I
asked Barb the other day after the awards. They had Dusette
arriving in 1920. I said, "Hey, how comE~ they never have me
down as that?" She said, "You didn't graduate until '25, did
you?" I said, "I know I didn't, but I was teaching before
I graduated." (Laughter ] I said, "Check the yearbooks.
You' 11 f ind me in the yearbook there. 11 So I attended all the
faculty meetings. I was faculty and student at the same
time. Unusual. I guess, as a matter of fact, the-- Let's
see, '23. Yes. I had my first official class in the summer
school of 1923. I think I had s ·e ven students. I remember it
well bec~use one of the students was the mother of one of
my high school classmates, Mary Timmons. Her mother was in
my class that summer, that small class. Well then, that
summer, it was nine weeks, the s ession , ·at that time, the
normal school. It was six weeks _ _ _ Six weeks in the
summer school. I spent a weekend over at Findlay Lake as a
houseguest. I got home Sunday night late because I'd taken
the train to Cambridge, from F indlay Lake to Cambridge
Springs, and the trolley from Cambridge Springs up to
Edinboro. I got home at eleven o'clock. Shortly after,

Russell Mccommons Interview - page 16
Mother said, "Mr. Bates has been calling all afternoon. He
said if you got home before eleven to call him. If not, to
be over at school seven-thirty in the morning." I went over
back there the next morning. Dusette had an attack of
appendicitis. Couldn't climb the stairs the last three weeks
of summer school. So I took over his Art 1 classes, as well
as my own teaching. Well , Mr. Crawford, I met him when he
first came. I was a grocery boy in 1917 or '18, and
delivered groceries there, got acquainted with his wife, and
got to know him. And he told me a lot of things. He confided
a lot of things in me through the years. After that summer
was over, he told me , he said (I still remember that little
chu_ckle), he said, "A lot of students _ _ _ _ . But Mr.
Mccommons taught us a lot better stuff. He taught us
something we could use. 11 Well, I was using one of Bates's
outlines . Dusette refused to use his outline because he
couldn't draw and he couldn't do these things. He couldn't
see color. Drawing, design, and color. And he was teaching
Principles of Design from a little book--I still have the
book--Applied Drawing by
Brown.
Little squares
and
triangles. Repetition, alternation, little border designs
in charcoal gray water paint, little borders. The stuff the
public school teachers never used. Elementary school for six
weeks 0£ nothing, see.
DO:

Well, how is it, do you think, that he became important
enough to Edinboro to have a building named after him?

RMcC:

Well, I think I know. And this gets back to another thing.
In the beginning he started raising a family. He had another
child every year, one after the other after the other, it
seemed. He was raising a family on an income that he
couldn't afford. So it wasn't long after he got there that
he started-- He'd call the class to order, give an
assignment. They were usually two hours, two-and-a-half
periods. And then he'd disappear. He'd go out and do
interior painting or wallpaper hanging in the wintertime and
interior and exterior painting in the summer. He'd come back
at the end of two hours, dismiss the class, take the
secondary class, and away he'd go, see. Now, Dr. Crawford
and Mr. Bates tolerated it in those early years because of
his wife and ever-increasing family. But one summer-- Oh,
almost from the beginning, he figured he ought to be head
of that department. He did everything he could to criticize
and stab Mr. Bates. As a matter of fact, two or three years
ago I was talking to Rose Lanecock, another one of our
assistants. Incidentally, Rose came in-- She graduated in
'22, taught for a year in the summer school. Bates spotted
her. She came to the art department in 1 23 and finished in
'25 in my class. I was there until '26. I went to
Westmoreland County. She joined the facu_l ty in '25; she was

•

(--

Russell Mccommons Interview - page 17
there unti 1 ' 2 8 . They were pushing for degrees, and Dr.
Crawford then told her--the teacher called her and said-"Rose, you're going to have to get a degree, or I won't be
able to keep you. The pressure's great." Well she went to
Peabody for a year, and then as fate had it, she didn't
return. I guess she went to California for a year or so, and
-then she landed at the University of Colorado at Boulder,
Colorado, for forty years and was a professor there.
Spreading Mr. Bates's philosophy. Rose and I were the only
two that completely absorbed Mr. Bates's philosophy.
Well, the-- What happened here--? Oh, yes, along about
1 32 or
'33 Or. Crawford attempted--I don't know what Dusette
did--but Dr. Crawford attempted to get rid of him. As a
matter of fact, one summer Mr. Bates and two or three of
them went to the state college for a post-session. He
thought he'd get his master's degree down there. Dusette did
something. I don't know what it was. But pulled some
underhand trick. And Mr. Bates never left Edinboro again.
I don't know what he did, but he was really something in
those early years. But in '32 or '33 Dr. Crawford tried to
get rid of him, and this is a secret I've kept for 60 years.
Maybe now it's time to tell it.
DO:

It is as far as I can see.

RMcC:

He told me that word had come from Harrisburg to back off.
He said the bishop of the diocese had interceded, and Eimee
Dusette would never leave Edinboro "except of his own
volition." Now shortly after th-a t, Dr. Crawford asked to be
relieved of the presidency (that's when Dr. Ross came in),
and I believe he. was assigned to the teaching staff for a
year or so. His health failed, and shortly after that he
died. I think as a result of that. Now I know that to be
true because 20 years later, about 1952, I was at a
fraternal
organization meeting,
and I
struck up a
conversation with a resident of Edinboro, whom I'll identify
only by the initials B.F. We got to talking about Edinoboro.
When he found out I'd been on the faculty--"You know
Dusette?" "Yeah." He said he tried to take all the credit
for establishing Our Lady of the Lake Church, but he said
a lot of others had had just as much to do with it as he
did. And one thing led to another. I mentioned the fact that
about '32 Dr. Crawford had tried to get rid of him, and - I
quoted what Dr. Crawford had told me. He said, "Yes, I
remember the incident. 1 We had very powerful friends in
Harrisburg at that time. 111 Catholic friends. So ousette used
his religion. I don't know what yours is; it doesn't matter.

DO:

It doesn't matter.

RMcC:

But he used it to the nth degree. And I think through the

r

Russell Mccommons Interview - page 18
Alumni Association,
named for him, too.
DO:
RMcC:

I

think he used it to get that hall

His religious connection?
Yes. But he had-- Oh, another incident. A student by the
name of Earl Kyles, Sr., there. He was a top student, an A
. student, right through. As a matter of fact, I used him some
years later. When I was at ____ Extension Di vision, I
brought him down there for summer school, off-campus
teaching, for two or three or four years. He was tops.
ousette was going to flunk him in jewelry making and design.
He asked him why. He said, "You didn't finish your chain."
Gold and silver chain. Earl said, "I was waiting for you to
show me how to solder it." He said, "I told you how." He
said, "Yeah, but I don't understand. I'd like to see you do
it." He wouldn't do it. He passed him with a D, didn't flunk
him. Do • you know why he couldn I t solder that chain? He
couldn't see the color of that tip of the alcohol burner
changing color. He couldn't see the color. He could not do
one single thing. He couldn't draw, he couldn't paint, he
couldn't solder a link in a chain. He couldn't do anything.
But he could tell anyone. He had it all right. And he got
by with it.

DO:

It's amazing.

RMcC:

Well, I didn't mean to really get into that.

DO:

That's fine, that's fine. Tell ·me more about Dr. Crawford.
You knew him from the time you were a grocery boy. You knew
him as an employee also.

RMcC:

He was a prince, a fine man. I remember when he first came,
he was assistant principal to Professor Bader. He first
lived in what had formerly been the Wayside Inn, which is
where the telephone building is located at Edinboro right
now. I remember Mrs. Crawford and the three children: Wayne,
Isabel--let's see, Stanley was a boy, and I got acquainted
with him. But I don I t know. He took a liking to me.
Apparently he didn't think there wasn't anything I couldn't
do. He was vice principal while I was in high school there
and then on into college. I remember one day--I think it was
the fall of 19 .... school had just begun; it's either 1 22 or
'23--we're up in the art department. The telephone in Mr.
Bates' s off ice rang. He came out, and he· said, "Russ, Mr.
Crawford can't get into his desk. He wants you to go down
and open it up for him." [Laughter] Well, I knew what had
happened is that with these old-fashioned desks there's a
bar that latched the drawers that's tied into the cam in the
center drawer. So as I went past the sink, I picked up a

Russell Mccommons Interview - page 19
small bar of Ivory soap, and I went down. I crawled under
the desk, I released the thing, soaped the friction points,
crawled out from under the desk. I crawled out. I saw at the
left-hand side of the door to his _ office a beautiful clock
about 5 or 6 feet tall. [End of Tape #1)
... near the top. And just below it was another dial,
a bunch of concentric circles and regular lines at every 15
minutes. And then they intersected at the drill point. And
in some of those was a little pin like an old-fashioned
metal phonograph needle, contact bar. And a full glass
front. It was beautiful, golden, quarter-sawed oak. And in
gold-leaf lett~rs, down towards the bottom, "Presented by
the Class of 1902. 11 He saw me looking at it. He said, "Russ,
so do you think you can make that work?" I said, "Well now,
I think maybe I can if you'd send it up to the department
where I can work on it. So he had the men bring it up to the
art department. They took down the wall in the upper stock
room, and I got after it to clean up the contacts, got .
another batter for it, a 6V hotshot battery. And got it
going. He contemplated using that for ringing the bells in
the classrooms and the dormitories now. But there weren't
any conduits, no overhead wiring, so they abandoned the
idea. Instead of returning it to the office, we left it
there. I wired it up and put a big 6-inch gong to signal
because we couldn't always hear the bells in recitation,
see. So that called up the classes for a couple of years
until I left. When I left, it was still there. I left in 1 26
for Westmoreland County.
But he appointed me to the faculty in '23. I graduated
from the three-year course in 1 25, and they already had the
plans for the fourth year. The curriculum was all laid out.
So I enrolled for summer school in '25 for advanced work,
expecting to get the degree when it was available. About the
third day in school he came up to where I was working.
"Russell, 11 he said, "how'd you like to go to Clarion?" I
thought he wanted me to drive him down to Clarion. He
usually had me drive him down to Clarion when he had a
meeting with the other principals. I said, "Okay. When do
you want to go? 11 11 Oh 1 11 he said, "I'm not going. You're going
down there and teach the rest of the summer. 11 Very _ _ _ .
He said, "You can put your things away here. I've already
arranged that Mrs. _ _ remit your fees. And Miss Chapman's
looking up train and bus schedules. When you get through,
you come down, and she'll tell you how to get there." Well,
I didn't come to for a few minutes. I started to put away- Mr. Bates ca.me in and said, "What are you doing?" I said,
"Well, I guess I I m going down to Clarion." "What do you
mean?" I said, "Dr. Crawford's told me I'm going down to
teach for the rest of the summer at ten-thirty in the
morning." He said, "Well, you I d better get going. Your
mother will have to get the laundry together and

C

Russell Mccommons Interview - page 20
everything." So that shook me up. I ran all the way home,
got things together. Miss Chapman in the meantime had got
the trolley schedule to Meadville and the bus from Meadville
to Clarion. Ten-thirty in the morning. One-thirty that
afternoon I was on the trolley heading for Clarion. So I
taught there for nine weeks, minus two or three days. I was
21 when I went down there; I turned 21 the middle of the
summer. I taught those nine weeks for the magnificent sum
~f $375. The base salary for a bachelor's degree was fifteen
hundred then for the academic year. So one fourth of that
was $375. So I was at that time told I was the only
individual in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania ever having
taught at two Pennsyl vania--been on the faculty at--two
Pennsylvania state normal schools before reaching the age
of 21. They were a~ways calling me for something like that.
Oh, incidentally, in '23--oh when they were building
the art department--they remodeled the auditorium. They put
in a new proscenium arch, and they made the height of the
stage-- In fact, the toilets were on top of the stage, and
the art department.
DO:

The toilets?

RMcC:

The toilets were up a few steps and occupied the--above the
stage--the auditorium. That projected into the new part of
the building, you see. The auditorium was the old part. The
stage projected into the new part of the building. So we
went up a few steps, and the toilets were in that part. We
had a studio up here, you see. Well, at any rate, the pipe
organ was installed at that ti~e. And in between changing
classes, I watched them install that organ--wires and the
keys and everything with soldered valves. One thing I found,
the architect had miscalculated. These were big 16-foot
pipes. They were about 10 or 12 inches square and 16 feet
long. They forgot the height of the rack a couple of feet,
two feet _ _ _ would have to go through the ceiling. You
know what they did to those? They mitered them at a 45°
angle, and turned it up-- 14 feet and then 2 feet out this
way. They still had a 16-foot pipe, see. So all those 16foot pipes were mitered. Well, that was powered by a d.c.
motor because the d.c. on the plants, and they switched to
a.c. at night. At times, when anyone would start to use that
with the a.c. on, it wouldn't start. Well, they'd leave the
switch on, and they'd burn out the motor. Well, they burned
out several. Dr. Crawford called me one day. "Russell," he
said, 11 do you think you can figure out a,way to keep from
burning out those motors?" ( Laughter] Well, there wasn't any
control that was selective at all. So I came up with an
idea: a ___ receptacle around the base of the organ. I got
a 120V neon lamp, which was a two-element lamp that had one
plate and the other is separated. D.c. only· one would glow;

(

Russell Mccommons Interview - page 21
a.c. both would glow. So I put that bulb in there, and I put
a note on it: Do not start organ unless only one half is
lighted . No mor e burnouts.
Well, gett ing back to t he point where I picked up on
this clock, Dr . Vance in his Portrait of Edinboro says that
in 1905 the class dedicated an electric clock for the center
of Normal Hall. That wasn't the clock at all. The class was
in 1902. It was dedicated in 1905. It was the electric clock
that was in the principal's office. The clock in Normal Hall
was a weight-driven clock. After I got this one clock going-the clock was in a little cubicle right at the head of the
stairs as you'd go to the art department, padlock on the
door. It hadn't been running for several years. The only
reason was that Mr. Culbertson, the elderly custodian,
couldn't climb the stairs to wind the thing. I got that to
run. I mentioned the clock. He said, "Well, maybe you can
get that going, too." So he got a key to the place. I opened
it up. There was the clock. The clock wasn't in the tower,
incidentally. It was to the left of the tower. The only
thing that was in the t ower was the cable that went high in
the tower with a weight hang ing on it. So I took a look, and
hand cranked to wind it up. Unscrewed the thing slightly
_ _ . Wind it up and then put it back. Okay. So I set the
clock briefly with a couple of light bulbs. Lighted it at
night. And I kept that clock wound for a couple of years
until I graduated and moved on. By that time they got a
younger custodian, so he took over. But that reports that
as the clock on Normal Hall. It wasn't. It was an electric
clock, Class of 1902, dedicated in 1905. Electric
clock.
DO:

But you came back to Edinboro, though.

RMcC:

Yes. Now, I graduated in '2 5. I was still there at the
training school the following year. I had that part time.
In '26 I went to Westmoreland County as the county
supervisor,
one of the
first
countywide--the
first
countywide program in the United States--run by Katherine
Cox who later came to Edinboro. She was faculty at Edinboro
'28 to '30. Well, Paul Davids and I went down there, and
there were two others at the same time. John Davis went to
Unity Township. Paul and I were at the county office. We had
a combine; and Elizabeth Patton Ligoneer. So there were four
of us that year in Westmoreland County, right in on ___ •s
doorstep. In fact we had one school district, Salzburg; and
then we had the county, we had supervision over that. So
this is about the time that they gave Indiana the degreegranting privilege. Well, I don't know how many-- As the
program grew, we had one after-- We had six, seven, eight
supervisors in Westmoreland County all out o·f Edinboro, one
after another. Well, I came back in '2 6-- Oh, '27 I was back

Russell Mccommons Interview - page 22
in Edinboro. summer school finished the work for my degree.
And there were two degrees granted in '27 in public school
art; five in secondary education. I'm the only supervisor
of the whole group. The public school art--the other was May
Bush. She had continued her fourth year, but the fourth year
she was living in Erie, and so she took her fourth year at
the ___ branch, all academics and electives. She got the
·first degree because her name began with B with Bush. I got
the second, but I was the first one with a full four-year
art major. She had a three-year major and one year of
electives. So I claim the distinction of getting the first
degree in public school art. I was the first graduate of
Edinboro State Normal School to receive a degree from
Edinboro state Teachers' College in 1927.
Well, in '28 I came back to teach that summer, back to
Westmoreland County for two years. Katherine Cox came to
Edinboro then, and I took over as head supervisor of
Westmoreland County. And then I came back on June 1st of
1930 for a period of seven years. I was supervisor of
student teaching for the art students. We had them all over
the City of Erie and almost got it all over Erie County.
That first year I had, I think, 31 special art students
graduating in the class.
DO:

Now, it's not long after that that Carmen Ross came.

RMcC:

Carmen Ross came in '34. That was after Dr. Crawford
resigned. He was a fair man, but he wasn't very tactful in
some cases. I liked him because .he-- Well, in '35-- Up until
he came, only a few had gotten their summer classes to
teach; just a few were given the classes. So he said, "This
isn't fair." He said, "Everyone should have a chance. 11 So
he got permission from Harrisburg for any special courses
for which there was any demand. He asked all the faculty to
write up any cases they thought might--not in the regular
curriculuro--but they thought might be useful. I wrote up
three. They were all approved. And that summer we got the
income from our classes. That was our pay. I -had one class
with five in it, I had another class with seven, and I don't
know what the other class was. It was peanuts, but it was
a little something. Those were Depression years.
Well, going back just before that to '32 and the
Depression, I came to Edinboro on a master's schedule, 2400
base, 400 for the summer; 2800 was my base salary. 'Thirtyone I got an increment, $140 master's. increment: 2940.
Nineteen thirty-two the banks closed and the cutbacks. The
first thing they did from Harrisburg, they took away the
increments back to '30; I lost my increment back to 2940.
They took away summer school; they took that off: 2400. Ten
percent statewide cut. Edinboro was 8 p~rcent above the
average of the other colleges; another 8 percent cut. I took

Russell Mccommons Interview - page 23
a 33 ~ercent cut in one fell swoop, $1968.
DO:

Pretty big cut.

RMcC:

Well, when Dr. Ross came in, he got me back another
increment. And then he got to looking over things. I was
paying my own transportation running all over the place: the
constantly growing. It never occurred to me to hit him
up for it. But he found that so he got me another hundred
dollars for travel expenses. But he set this business up in
1 35 with
the summer school. Now, Dr. Vance records it as
having total salary for the year and everything as the
income from the classes. That wasn't true. We got our base
salary during the year, but the summer school we got the
income from whatever classes we taught. So he was wrong on
the second. And incidentally, when he was writing his book,
someone gave him my name, and he called me for an interview,
set up a schedule. About ten days or two weeks before the
scheduled time, I found that we were having--we got a call
that our carpets were being installed that very morning in
the other room there. I called Dr. Vance and told him that
a problem had come up, could I reschedule? Boy! I'll never
forget it. I never got such a dressing-down in my life. In
so many words, I I m the Great White Father. My time is
valuable,
yours is nothing.
If you can't keep the
appointment I've set up, you forget it. I forgot it.
[Laughter] I could have straightened him out on a lot of
things.

DO:

Sounds like it. So the Depression then cut your salaries
back.

RMcC:

Yes.

DO:

What about the school otherwise?

RMcC:

It held up pretty good. It held up pretty good.

DO:

The enrollment, did that stay steady?

RMcC:

What is it?

DO:

Did the enrollment stay steady?

RMcC:

I don't believe there's much of a thing there. Oh, another
thing now: In the fall of 1 31 I got an appropriation to put
in-- Wel~, wait. Let's go back to 1 26. They had a special
supervisor in Harrisburg, and Dr. Holbein was appointed
State Director of Visual Aids to Education--it wasn't visual
education--Audiovisual Aids. That was supposed to be an
adjunct to the regular techniques of learning, just an aid.

Russell Mccommons Interview - page 24
But Dr. Holbein came to Edinboro, and he sized up the
situation. And Mr. Bates became the first visual aids
instructor at Edinboro because your best visual aid is a
chalkboard and a piece of chalk. You can create it right
then and there, see. It's moved far from that in the modern.
All they want is canned stuff, see. But Mr. Bates, he was
put in that program, and Mr. Bates was the first instructor
in that, and I became the second one shortly after that. But
another amusing thing. Mr. Bates had a great sense of humor.
There was an Irna Grassmunk--I'll never forget the name. She
was the State Director of Social Studies. She came to
Edinboro for a week that time. Social studies everything.
Everything revolved around social studies. She had the
normal school faculty and the public school faculty all
herded together every afternoon after school, four o'clock,
over in the assembly room at the high school building,
preaching social studies everything. Everything works around
it. Well, Mr. Bates and I, one day toward the end of it, we
were sitting at the back getting bored. It came about five
o'clock, and it was still going. Mr. Bates is doodling and
drawing pictures of something and not paying attention. She
shouted a question at Mr. Bates: "Mr. Bates, do you know
why the Chinese eat so much rice?" "I don't know. It's to
fill up the chinks." (Laughter] That broke up the meeting
then. That was the end of it.
Well, early in the game, I just remembered now, in
September 1920--Armistice Day was a school holiday in those
days--and that morning I started-- The campus was a great
place to take a walk in the morning, and I was wandering
around the campus, and I met Mr. Bates. He was strolling
around the campus. We strolled around together. He told me
about his experiences. When the war broke, he tried to get
in the Army, the Navy, the Coast Guard, Merchant Marine. His
eyes. He wore thick-lens glasses. Turned down on account of
his eyes. The first draft they took him. Oh, not only that,
but he'd applied to the American Red Cross Field Service.
They turned him down. Well, they took him in the first
draft, Forty-second Division. And I understand from his
daughters that he designed the insignia for the Rainbow
Division. They called it the Rainbow Division because it was
made up of the National Guard and draftees in all 48 states.
I'm not sure, but I have a suspicion he may even have named
it. But one of his daughters told me that he had designed
the insignia for it. But he told me about this experience,
about having tried to get in the service. And he said when
he got over in France, he got this big official-looking
letter from the American Field Service of the American Red
Cross, a questionnaire. What's your present location? Are
you satisfied with your present position? . Well, when he
filled out what's your present position--what' s your present
address? Somewhere in France. What's your present location?

Russ~11 Mccommons Interview - page 25
Knee-deep in mud . [ Laughter] Are you satisfied wi t h your
present pos it i o n? No. He fill ed it out with a b u nch of silly
answers and s t uff a nd sent it to them. But I remember seeing
his duffel bag: Waldo F. Bates, Jr. --Sergeant Waldo F.
Bates, Jr., Forty -se cond Division, the Engineeri n g Corps.
He showed me a p iec e of a map, a ragged p iece roughly about
a foot square. He s aid he was in a shack behind the lines,
___ , plotting gun pos itions on this big wall map. He said
he went outside to take a smoke, and he no sooner got out
the door than a German shell hit the place and blew it all
to pieces. That wa s all that was left of it . But h e was
through a lot o f the maj o r battles , t he Rainb ow Divi sion,
the Fo r ty-s econd, in the war . And he tol d me about those
experiences. He said when they marched-- After the Armistice
they marched into Paris in open ranks through the Arch of
Triumph and given a heroes' welcome. He was very, very
patriotic.
DO:

That was all World War I?

RMcC:

That was World War I, yes. Well, let's see now. Oh, when I
left Edinboro in '37, I was eligible for a sabbatical. I
didn't know until later. Katherine Howell, _ _ _ bursar,
told me that Dr. Ross had $1800 if I wanted to take a
sabbatical. He didn I t tell me that. But I discussed the
possibility with him. He was interested in my getting a
doctorate degree. And I sat over on the porch of the
president's [house] one August day. The doctor's salary at
that time was 4400 beginning. The increment was $160.
Bachelor's 120, master's 140 ; doctor's 160. And I was
considering going to Peabody College. I said, "Well, suppose
I go get my degree then. Do I go up to 4400?" Well, he said,
"Unfortunately not." He said, "All you'd be getting would
be the $160 increment for having done that." I said, "My
gosh, it'll take me 20, 30 years to get up there at that
rate." I forget how long it was at $160 a year. "The
difference between $1968 and $4400, that's more than $1500.
My gosh, that'd take 10 , 12 years. He said, "Unfortunately."
I said, "Well, suppose I were to resign then, and then come
back. Then you could start me at 4400." Well, we kicked the
thing around, and I decided it would be better economics to
take that course. And so I resigned, figuring I'd build up
a litt1e · extra money in a year or two. I did get a teaching
fellowship down at Peabody, and I went down a year or so
later. I had a fellowship for a year. I .was supervisor of
fine and industrial arts at Peabody Demonstration School.
I spent the year--I was going a year and a summer. I was
preparing to go on into the second year when on registration
day I was waiting in line to complete my registration, and
Dr. Gore, one of my professors, came up. · "Hey, 11 he said,
"have you see Otis McBride? 11 I said, "No. 11 He said, "He I s

C

Russell Mccommons Interview - page 26
looking for you." He said, "You better just stop what you're
doing here and go down and check up with him. I'd be
interested in what--" He was the director of placement. Went
down to see him. He said, "I just got a call from the
university of Virginia. They're wanting someone-. I think
you've got the qualifications." And he said, "Maybe money's
running a little thin. You might want to make
a little money
•
.to help things along." So I put in a call to the university,
and they were looking for someone for summer school
extension teaching. I went over that weekend for an
interview, and I decided to take the job; we both thought
it might work.
so I had met the language requirements and taken the
qualifying examination. I had about a year to go in the
dissertation. So I went over to the university. I asked
about-- Well, they said, "We'd like you to teach at least
the first summer on campus here next summer. 11 I said, "I
want to get back to Peabody." They said, "Well, if you agree
to teach the summer, we' 11 advance your schedule. We' 11
start a little earlier in the fall so it'll be through by
mid-March, and get back there for the middle of second
quarter." I said, "Okay." Well, that was fine. That was in
1940. So I taught that summer, had my off-campus classes.
Well, what had happened, Virginia had just come up with a
study that they had-- As I recall, the study said that
Virginia had a lot of potential for industry and chemical
this, that, and the other thing. That to reach their full
potential was dependent upon a solid-based course in fine
and industrial arts in the elementary schools. Well, that
was the crux of it, you see� They had four colleges:
Madison, Radford, Mary Washington, and the university. Well,
these four would take care of the students in transit, see.
But they wanted someone to get the summer school at the
university and off-campus classes to pick up the difference,
see. So I went over there and taught that first summer. And
come December 7, 1941, the picture changed. All of the
professors left ___ here and there and everyplace. So to
get back to-- So that was the end of the line for that.

(

DO:

Well, Mr. Mccommons, I have to stop. It's unfortunate .

RMcC:

___ a stopping place, right?

DO:

Yes, the war. Sure. I'll just stop this.... [End of Tape #2]
[End of Interview)