v

Slippery Rock University

Department of History

History 401

Pennsylvania History

'AN ORAL HISTORY'
Baseball

Tutor Dr. D.D. Dixon.

Students. K McGaney
N Mills

November 1994

This interview was carried out on Tuesday, October 25,1994, at precisely
2:30pm in the afternoon. The location was the 341 Franklin Sfreet, Slippery
Rock, Pennsylvania. The interviewers were Nicholas Mills and Kenneth
McGarvey, students of Slippery Rock University, ffid the INTERVIEWEE
was one Mr. R.C. Boyer.
INTERVIEWERS

"The first question is, are you a native of Slippery Rock ?"
INTERVIEWEE
( Mr. Boyer nodded his head in response)

INTERVIEWERS
"Can you recall your first experience of Baseball ?"

INTERVIEWEE
"Are you sure you want to hear it ?"

INTERVIEWERS
"Yes, of course we do !"

INTERVIEWEE
"A bunch of us kids started playrng baseball, OK. I think I was thirteen years old. I was one of the
youngest, but E.B. Crotwell - and I don't suppose you guy's have ever heard of him - used to be the
athletic director of the College. His sorq Ed, and a bunch ofus guy's, we gotta little baseball team,

you know just kids. You gotta remember back in those days there wasn't any money, no cars, there
was nothing. So all we did was play ball - that's really the truth. We went up to that hill up there and
played

ball.

So the first year we just, you know, walk out to wick and play a game, walk up to

Forestville and play a game. We Walked

! We had no transportation. So the next year, why, EB.

Crotwell, Coach Thompson, they started to get involved a little bit and they were all members of the
American Legion down there."

INTERVIEWERS
"The American Legion

! Roughly, what year was this ? !938 ?"

INTERVIEWEE
"A long time ago. So the next year they talked the Legion into

us

joining the Legion League - Butler

county Legion / American Legion. And they bought us some uniforms and some catching equipment
because we were lucLy

hate to tell you this

to have

a glove

to tell you the truth and a ball. So the first game we played - I

- and at the end of the first year when just us kids were playing, they took us

down to Soronburg. Now Saxonburg had been in the American Legion baseball for years. A lot
these towns round here had been in

of

it for years - all but this one. Well, we went down and got beaten

by thirty three to two. (laughter)"

INTERVIEWERS
"fust like the team they have now !"

INTERVIEWEE
"Well, the thing was, we were just, you know, we didn't know very much."

INTERVIEWERS
"What was the team called ?"

INTERVIEWEE
"Well they called it the American Legionnaire's. That's the only game we played that year. Next year
we got uniforms and they worked us out. Now Coach Thompson...., at that time the College ran the
high school and the elementary school. Now all the student teaching came down there. So do you

know what we did in Gym class ? We played baseball. Coach Thompson was our - he was our
supervisor."

INTERVIEWERS

"It was all baseball

?"

INTERVIEWEE
"Yeah. Well, we did play football and basketball under the Coach you know. The next year we
started out early in the spring. So, the College had a baseball team - it wasn't to much of a baseball
team then - cos. they weren't into

it like they are now. So Coach said you guy's come on up. We

practiced with them. Well, that suillmer we started out to play. When we went to Saxonburg we

didn't have any uniforms, we had about two bats and about two balls

.

Next year we started out to

play. And we didn't do to bad and we didn't do as good as we'd have liked to have done naturally, you
don't want to win every game and we didn't. But we won. But our big problem was we didn't have
enough people - enough kids. So, the third year we got a lot better - we were getting a little older
then see, a little stronger, we knew a little more. Well when the Legion started out they asked Coach

to get somebody to Coach us. So we got a fellow by the name of Joe Hennings. He was a graduate
of this College up here (Slippery Rock). He worked for the gas company then. And he was a College
trainer up there - football , basketball and everything else. And then Coach he kind of got interested

in all this. He would come over and see that these kids are serious - they want to play ball. Then he'd
come up

and start helping Joe out and he taught us a lot

and we needed

year we did pretty good - almost won the county championships, but not

did win

it. And Coach Thompson

it.

So, we played. The third

quite The fourth year we

actually coached us that last game - the game that won us the

championship and I've never forgotten

it. We played

Butler

-

at Butler - Pullman Park -

Butler. And

Coach said to me - cos. I pitched then. See we had only so many guy's. I caught. The
second game he caught and I pitched. So Coach, he told me, "now look the first pitch you throw, you

get as close to that guy you can get without hitting him". Well I got close enough - l hit the bill of his
cap but being a kid you didn't, you didn't realize just exactly what he was teaching

you. About the

fifth inning, I understood exactly what he was teaching me. Its scared the hell out of them kids. Now
his wilder than a march hare. So we won the county championship. He end up going, we played one
game, one series of game. In the next series, we had to play New Kensington. And we didn't win that

one. They had some guy's down there who could play Ball. But after that, the Coach would say to
me, I was a senior in high school, I played football, basketball and baseball, "were going to have

Alumni game up there. How about coming up and catching for us". I said yes I'll up. Well you got
to remember the College at that time was not very big - only about twelve hundred to 1500 students.
Know, we knew all the football players, basketball players, baseball players. We knew them all.
Personally. So I'd go up and catch for the Alumni team. This Eddie Cotwell ended up being the
athletic direct for West Chester State College. Now they had Atlantic baseball school down here in

Butler. And Eddy Cotwell and Bruce Adam's, made the team sponsored, by the Pittsburgh Pirates.
They made the team. Eddiie Cotwell was offered a scholarship to Duke University. His dad said "No.

Your not going to College, not right up there". Eddie went up there and he played football and he
played baseball. So then the war came along. And that ended

all. It

ended everything. "

INTERVIEWERS
"In those days, in the early days, were there strong community ties, linked with baseball ? Did the
community actually get involved ?".

INTERVIEWEE

"No. Not really. No. This town has been funny for years. Now I'll get to that.

So after the war was

over. When we guy's came home you know. They wanted to start American Legion baseball back up
again. Now Pop

Storr. I don't know whether you guy's have heard of him or not! Well

he was Coach

up at the College. Coach had retired. He became football Coach. Ker Thompson. Pop Storr had
played for Ker Thompson. He recommended him for the

Coach

?".

So I said

"OI!

job.

So Pop said "how about you being the

I'll try". So we gathered up a bunch of kids, went up on the hill up there.

And we practiced. And we worked. Well Judge Bridon down there in the courts he was one of my

v

Ball players. Bob Weldon, his out in Illinois, he is a Stockbroker. Dale Shafer, a graduate of this
College. His up at the Mayo Clinic, Michigan or Minnesota where ever it is. One of the two. His a

physical therapist. And we had a catcher, his name was Kondi, he was from Annandale out there in

Boyers. He had to work in the surnmer time. Cos. everybody was poor, they didn't have no money."
INTERVIEWERS
"Were you working at the time ?"

INTERVIEWEE
"Me ? Yes I was working at the Cooper bus company, Grove City. And so the old Kondi went down
to play Butler. And my wife's probably the only woman ever sat in the dug out, Pullman Park, in

Butler. Now we had

a

kid who was a pretty good ball player, Bobby Jack. His a lawyer in Dallas

right now. Texas, yeah. A big shot. But he was two days to old. So I thought what the hell, I'm
gonna take the chance.

I got Bobby to go along. At that time Butler

had a minor league Ball club

down here. By the Yankee's. So we had Penn State umpires. That's what they called the league,
Penn State. Bobby went out to

pitch. So anyway we couldn't do any good against Butler. Not

having a good pitcher. We didn't have the talent to play then. About the second pitch the umpires call

time out. I thought "oh were caught". What he had, he had a charm bracelet. He had a charm
bracelet on. The umpires made him take it o{, we didn't caught. We lost by one run but it didn't make
any difference. Its just because we didn't have the talent-that's all. We, just didn't have

it!"

INTERVIEWERS
" But they were more of an established team."

INTERVIEWEE
" Oh yeah. They had been established down there for years. We weren't. So er after that year the
Legion decided to build a building down there, its apartments now, okay. So they wouldn't sponsor a
Baseball team. So

I

decide I'd start playing Baseball again. Well coach Thompson had a cousin down

in West Sunbury. And he recommended me for a catcher for them. Now he played in the Butler

County league, pretty good league at that time. So I went down to West Sunbury and I plated for a
year. We had players from New Castle, Clarion, all over Gods creation down there . And what used to

get us, you would look up in the crowd you know. You would see people from Slippery Rock
watching the Ball game, and if you go up here in the hill you never see them. You never understand

why they would not support a team in Slippery Rock?"

INTERVIEWERS

"Why do you think"
INTERVIEWEE

"I have no idea to this day I can't understand these people.

So they formed a Petroliom- Chicora

league. Petrolia, Chicora, Bruin, Hillairds, Ridgeville. Out here in Branchton, this little town in

Branchton. They made a diamond out there. I went out there to play. That's about two miles you

Know.... So went out there to play for three or four years and the last year I managed the Branchton
team. That year I decided, hey we gotta get some young people into this, not us old guys we are
getting to god dam old for this. Now went up to Forrrestville and got a guy by the name of Vic
Ceranea, Cubby Ararea, Bubbles Ararea and a pitcher

I had played with down in West Sunbury, Dean

Lumwick. I took a fellow by the name ofDale Shafer, Lefty Hazelteen. No the only reason I call him
lefty, I think his right name is Bob used to run a news-stand down there by the side of the bank. His
father gave it him. And Sid Synder."

INTERVIEWERS
" Is that the same one from Berlin?"

INTERVIEWEE
" No. They interviewed him because he called me and told me. And I took these three kids, they were

just kids. So I took them out there and started them to out to play. Well actually they were pretty
good ball players - they were - they, were decent enough ball players. Didn't have any experience but
they knew what they were doing. So this Vic Sereena, up here at Forestville. He was about 6ft 4ins

tall, lanlcy guy, about that big around. Boy could he throw a baseball! His only problem is were the
hell is it going, you know his one of those guy'S, if he was batting against yeah you didn't want your

in. You might have to duck in a hurry! He was that fast. He was probably the fastest thing

spikes dug

around here - including the College players and anybody else."

INTERVIEWERS
" What happened to him ?"

INTERVIEWEE
" Well up in Foreswille at the last year he wasn't pitching. They put him in relief. You know - to save
a ball

game. OK. This arm - this bone right here in his arm - he wouldn't warm up. He was bull

headed as

hell. You know - anything Coach told him you could forget

it.

This arm right here - this

big bone right here came right out through his skin - the first pitch he throwed. And of course they

took him up to hospital and in any situation they kinda went along with it a little bit - helped him out,
paid for

it.

So

Vic spent

a couple of years of and then I got him down in

Branchton. He could still

throw like hell- gosh could he throw! And then we went up to Parker to play one time.. just
seventeen years

old. Never

played in a league like that in his

a

kid,

life. Was a pitcher, I thought what the

hell give the kid a chance, see what he could do. We put him in to pitch, well he went six innings -

pretty good. The seventh innings he started to get into trouble - they started to catch on. So there's a
big dark cloud coming over - and when you look out from the batting box - my God! You can't
forget this you know. The batters looking right into

it.

And the baseball is hard to see. So I brought

Vic in - let him warm up and brought him in - pitched the last innings. The first pitch he throw - it
might have been in the Allegheny river - I don't know where it went. The umpire was right behind me,
I was catching - he was right behind

"search me, I don't know where its

me.

and he accused me of putting

at". Well,

he said "l don't know

it in my pocket,

and I said

either". So they went out and said

to Vic "hey put your hands up, we want to search you! Did you throw that ball?". Vic said "hell yes I

throw

it". It could be in the Allegheny

river for all I know - I don't know where the hell its at! But we

played and we had a good ball counting. So after that was over the Petroleum Valley League kind

folded. So there was nothing to do - I actually quit playng baseball."

of

INTERVIEWERS
" What year was that?"

INTERVIEWEE
" Forty, forty nine, I don't know. Something like that. So I was looping around town and a young

fellow by the name of Harris Betino, his brother got killed during World War two. He was aBlT

pilot - but got killed in Texas - didn't get killed overseas - an airplane crash, OK. Having graduated
from College up here and there was nothing to do, he wanted to become a pilot. Now you know
where that sports shop up there - right across from Sheezt's - that's where they lived. Now Harry said

to me one day, "lets start

a

little league" - sounded like

a good

idea. So the Sheetz's brothers, which I

know you guy's don't know,they were strip miners and they lived up here. They thought it was a good
idea - they had a couple of young boys you

I

called

it

know.

So they brought the equipment in and right behind

Synder's Garage - its where the tire shop is right now, OK - they grated

made us a ball

field.

it all out for us -

So in order to sell the little league to the people of Slippery Rock and the kids,

was working out at the Cooper Bessamer and the guy was the head dog of the Grove City league.

I

I

got a hold of him and said, "how about brining a couple of teams down here and playng an exhibition

-

so the people could see what this is all

about. So they did, they brought a couple of teams down

and played. Well the people went right for

it.

Right away - Boy this is alright. So now we didn't

have any equipment so we had find a way get some equipment. B.D. Marsh up in Grove City owned
a Goodyear

tire store. He ended up owning the Pioneer drive in, or I forget what they call the drive

in, but used to be in Grove Clty - outside Grove City. He owned the Pioneer, he was pretty wealthy.

And he sold the Grove City all their uniforms, all their equipment, bats, balls and everything else. So
Harry and I went up to see him - we need $800 worth of equipment. He said, "hell I'll give it to you trust you for

it".

So we went and got the equipment - $800

worth.

So, by little league rules, each

sponsor had to donate $250 - so that was that - buy use the uniforms, catching equipment, so
Sheetz's right away put $250

in. Well Sid Synder Grand Dad

on.

So

he said, "hell I ain't gonna be out done,

so his $250

from Synders Garage". You know they owned all the bus service around here then. So

we had five hundred dollars right way. "

INTERVIEWERS
"Pretty expensive"

INTERVIEWEE
" Oh Yeah"

INTERVIEWERS
"This 1950, don't forget that the average wage was about six dollars."
INTERVIEWEE
"Yeah, it wasn't to much. So the veterans had a club down here just outside, and they said they want

in. Good.

So they gave us $250 - we now had $750 - so now we had

to get the fourth payer. So we

went to the Rotary Club - you know what there like - don't want to do nothing. So we insulted them we had a big meeting down at the Legion Hall. Duck Sheetz's is actually the one who did it - he just

got up and insulted everybody. And that's all you can say for

it. He gave a speech

and said "you

fuckin bastards", you know. So the merchants in town and the Rotary Club went together and they
gave $250. Now we had everything paid for - had a little bit of money left

over.

So we started the

little league. Well after it got started the first year full year - some of the people started to get really
interested. Well, Wally Rose was the Coach of the College up here and he got interested. He came
down, wanted to know whether he could - we said hell yes he could. Damn right - glad to have you

Now we got some of them people interested then and now you
working but it took
on

it. Eddie

a

lot

see where the

. Then we played, we had an independent

he played on

it. He was the athletic

little is at up there. Its

basketball team up here - I played

director at Butler High School - played football up

here at the College. Wayne Brennon who was Superintendent of the school pavilion but now is

retired. Bob Hoggs, taught school out of Moniteau he played. And we had two College guy's, I can't
remember their names - and one College teacher called

Bill MacKay."

U

INTERVIEWERS
"Oh, the MacKay Education building."

INTERVIEWEE
"Well, Bill, he was a little all American the way, when he graduated out of College. He was a good
ball player, I'll tell ya, he was sharp. So they played with us. Now I suppose our big deal was, we
used to go and use the gym at the College then - like I say the College isn't like
a

it is now. They call it

University now. He used to go up and use the gym. Of course Pop Storr, Ker Thompson, them

guy's knew use - we knew all the ball players. We were all friends you

know.

So one day the College

is playing Westminister up here. Now Westminister didn't bring their freshman team - at that time
freshmen

could not play bar city ball. Pop called down the street to Eiseley's. He said, "can you get

the gang together and come up and play the freshman team - were hurting. The place is packed".
Yeah I can get them together,.were all sitting in here. So we gathered up our clothes and up we went

- and we beat the College freshmen by one point. One guy I'll never forget is Wile Fox. He played in
on the football team - good ball player - good ball player. Well, he came down after the ball game,

after Westminister, all came down to Eiseley's - they'd come down with us. Were sitting there

drinking coffee and coke, having a sandwich. But it was all friends then you see - there was no - you
know, there.......

INTERVIEWERS
" They were good days?"

INTERVIEWEE
"Oh, they were...you hear us old guy's talking about the old days but they were good days."

INTERVIEWERS
" That's right because you knew everyone and everyone was your friend or your neighbor".

INTERVIEWEE
"Yeah! We used to go up there you know. After that, well! Hell we used to.... the fire company
down here, they had freshman initiation up here at the College, we used to take the trucks up - right
where the field house is at now. We flooded a piece of ground in there and the freshmen and the
sophomores would have a tug of war to

it. But it was all friends, it was all good times you know.

Now the University has got so big. One of the reasons

a

lot of us dropped out of the American

Legion down here was..... we wanted them to build that building so there be a basketball court in it.

Now

as

long as Coach Thompson was active up in the College and Pop Storr was active up in the

College, we could get in up there you know. We used to go up there and we'd go down into the

locker room put our tennis shoe's on, go up there and sit against the wall. Pretty soon you'd know
there'd be a ball thrown in our direction and the basket down. We would get to play. They were our
friends and the College guy's were our friends. So, we played, we had a good time - a good time.

Every once in a while you run into some of them you know."

INTERVIEWERS
"You've had a pretty rich and varied experience, you've played and you've managed."

INTERVIEWEE
"Yeah! Yeah even with Sid Synder when he was in junior high school I used to go up there referee ball
games in the high school. he was a pretty good basketball player, good shot."

INTERVIEWERS
"Did the team get any, you know, did they win any big leagues around in the area?"

INTERVIEWEE
"

No. Nobody that I know of ever went.

There was a couple of guy's got in what was class D ball.

Dean Sereena I was telling you about. he got into class

D.

He was signed up by the Cincinnati Red's

up in Eire. But Dean was about twenty eight years old by then. He was a good pitcher-dam good. He
played about a month up there, then he quit I asked him "What did you quit for ? he
,'
said I'm to old

and they don't pay enough, you know, I've got a

here,

I

can't fool around doing this".

Dick

wife and two kids to support. I gotta get to work up

Seveena probably would have been taken by a major league

ball club, if you could control him, coach him. Like

I

said he was as bull headed as hell. And nobody

could tell him nothing, he just went out there, wound up and he throw it and he was probably the
fastest thing around here- without any doubt. In fact Sid Snyder and them guys they followed us. They
had a Basket ball team and a Baseball team and they wanted to play a warm-up game up here. So a

bunch of us went up, hell, we hadn't played Ball in years. We went up, I

got Vic to come down. I

think I pitched the first couple of innings. I put Vic irq they couldn't touch him. He was to fast-wildmy God. When you was catching that guy you wanted your traction's on cos. you didn't know where

it was going. Now we played Hilards out there- we had Vic pitching. It started to rain

a

little bit so we

all got into cars. Siting in the car, Vic said, "Hey I want to throw that guy a curb ball". Everybody
burst out laughing- he couldn't throw a curb ball if his life depended upon it. All he knew - he had it.

He had it.

INTERVIEWERS
" That was more of a gift ?"

INTERVIEWEE
" Yealr, it was a glft. Most people don't have that speed. I never had it."

INTERVIEWERS
" Like cricket Freddy Truman was the fastest bowler."

INTERVIEWEE
"Yeah. Some guy's you know they have speed and other don't, that's all. But we played Ball, had

a

good time. Used to have a basket up at the back of the home - back there - oh yeah. Judge Brydon, a
Judge in Butler county, Bud Vincent a chemical engineer for Amoco, they'd all come down here.

They called it Boyars stadium. Nobody was interested in basketball and what we did out there was

purely coincidental cos. they were just rough on us. Never forget they were down here on night and

Pop Storr was Coaching the high school. Then all of a sudden, decided, hey they had a game that

night. There took of and beat it for the gym up there.

So the

wife and l, we went up. Walked in the

door, Pop looked at me and said, "what the hell are you doing with my basketball teanr, cos. there all

dirty, covered with ashes and everything else".

I

said, "well we were just warming up down there".

He said, "yeah there warmed up alright". But they were good kids."

INTERVIEWERS
" Did you during those years, did you follow the professional baseball league - did you have a favorite
team ?"

INTERVIEWEE
" Well, the Yankee's were of course the favorites during those years. And we went to some park
games you know when they first started to get up in there, when Dick Grow and those guy's played.

We went down and the only thing I've got to say about Three Rivers Stadium is how, we could go
down there the year the Pirates beat the Yankee's in the world series. Went down there, don't know

how many times - took my boys down, OK, wife went along

to. Go down to Fort

box seat tickets, not in advance. Go down to Three Rivers and try - you can't do

Field I could get

it. Companies

had

all bought them out. You sit way up and look down where the box seats are. There all empty. You
can't get down there."

INTERVIEWERS
" You think as a result of that baseball has lost some of its grass roots ?"

INTERVIEWEE

"Oh I know it has. You don't have any community baseball round here anymore."
INTERVIEWERS
"So where is the nearest community team. What would you recognize as a respectable team round
here ?"

INTERVIEWEE
" Oh, yes sure, we played out at Branchton Cross roads, that's were the field was at. You look up
there and half of Slippery Rocks out there - you know watching."

INTERYIEWERS
"Yealr, but I mean is that team still playrng now ?"

INTERVIEWEE
"

No. No!"

INTERVIEWERS
" Where is the nearest now ?"

INTERVIEWEE
"That league's all gone. What happened was we all got to old and nobody came along behind us, you

know. Sid Synder and his gang they tried to follow us, they had

a

Ball club here. Pretty good Ball club

to.tt

INTERVIEWERS
"When you look at it, people like yourself were instrumental in starting the league's, really ?"

INTERVIEWEE
" Oh yeah sure. They have a Butler county league now - nobody round here, I don't think there ever

will be."
INTERVIEWERS
" If you wanted to go and watch a match now which is the nearest place you could go and watch a
decent team ?"

INTERVIEWEE
"

Butler. I think they have pretty good one down in Mars and Evans City..

INTERVIEWERS
"So its the really big towns, no small towns have got one round here ?"

INTERVIEWEE
"Evans City and Mars are small towns."

INTERVIEWERS
"You think its gone down hill"

?

INTERVIEWEE
"Oh yeah. All the sports for people - well sport has gone down hill period. Look at the University up

here. Scholarship and all that! Now I used to go to every College Ball game there was. Wife went to.

Didnt matter where they always went - we went. We went when the guy's were playing

because they

wanted to play, you know what I mean. Didn't get any scholarships, they had to do their studies.
They had to do their work right you know. And it was fun to watch them whether they won or lost, it

didn't make any difference. One of the best Ball games I ever saw was over here at Westminister. I
can't remember the Coaches narne, I tried to think of

it

a couple of

times. They had

a period up here

were they got three or four bad Coaches. They got this guy in, he was a good football - Alan

Jackson. I know you never heard of them He used to Coach Clarion, retired now. But Alan Johnson
and this guy over here a doctor - can't think of his name lived at Cooper Street, Knew him well to that's the hell of

it.

Anyway his first year they went over to play Westminister and they didn't have

much. Best football game I ever saw they almost beat Westminister. In fact they would have if it had
not been for a penalty and that was one of those questionable one's. I'll tell you, those kids played
hard - them guy's -played hard - they played Ball. I was down at the service station getting gas and
the Coach came

in. The guy who caused the penalty was one of the guards - playng guard on defense

- good ball player. Said did you say anything to him, "no sir not a word". Said "that kid was playing
his heart

out. That call was so rough I

said that very question. The Quarter back

for Westminister at

that time, the Cleveland Browns was scouting him. A black guy. The kid was good - can't take that
away from him - he was good. But they had him running for the side lines all the time. he wouldn't

try to go up field. He was scared

as hell

- there wrapped him up a few times - he didn't like

it. But he

was good. The next year they didn't walk over Slippery Rock anymore. Alan Jackson was an all
American of Penn State. The Coach - damn can't think of his name - he played for lPenn State. So

now you had a offensive Coach and a defensive Coach. First State championship this College won they won."

INTERVIEWERS
"So its all football oriented at Slippery Rock - there's no baseball."

INTERVIEWEE

"I don't like it this way. My daughter went to College down in Arkansas and

she was

all enthusiastic

about the football program, there basketball program. Til she got out there and found what those
guy's were getting. Playrng football, basketball, getting cars donated you know and all this

that really takes the fun out of

it. Pop Storr

jazz. And

told me one time, along time ago, said the best football he

watched, the best sports you van watch is small town, high school, whether there good or bad it
makes no difference. Their playrng for the fun of

it.

Their playing because they want to play."

INTERVIEWERS
"Its like that in England we have what you call Sunday league football league. You go to Sunday
league football, everyone who plays it, they all put their hearts into

it."

INTERVIEWEE
"That's right they play for the fun."

INTERVIEWERS
"Baseball today is like another sport, its to commercial."

INTERVIEWEE
"Oh yeah. Its big business now - all money. And these baseball players are getting entirely to much
money."

INTERVIEWERS
"Are they as good as the guy's you played with in the thirties, forties and fifties ?"

INTERYIEWEE

"I don't think their better. They got more coaching, they got better equipment, they got you know

a

lot more things those guy's didn't have but those guy's could play ball. But these guy's are getting
entirely to much money. Its just ruining them as

far

as

I'm concerned."

INTERVIEWERS
"Do you miss it by the strike

? Because

its usually on the T.V. ?"

INTERVIEWEE

"I don't give

a damn

if they never start up again. I'll tell you the truth. I love baseball, I love to watch

the Pirates, I love to watch baseball. I have a big T.V."

INTERVIEWERS

"If they love baseball they would just play."
INTERVIEWEE
"That's right! What's this idea of getting four or five million Dollars ayear like Barry Bonds out there,

getting seven million Dollars ayear. There's no ball players in the world worth that. You know it, I
know, and everybody else knows

it.

There just not worth

it."

INTERVIEWERS
"Better of charging less or giving a bit more to the fans in way of facilities."

INTERVIEWEE
"Yeah everybody knows whether there in England or Pennsylvania the United States. The
management has to make money.

If they

can't make money your not going to have

a

job."

INTERVIEWERS
"Would you blame the management ?"

INTERVIEWEE
"Partly. Partly. Because when these guy's were asking for these big contracts they went and give it to

them. Down here in Butler.......(small talk with Mrs Boyer now took place).........up in Harrisville,

U

ForrseMlle out there everybody had

a ball club and the guy's all

worked some place, come home at

night chance their clothes, went out and played ball."

INTERVIEWERS

"It was a good thing to do in an evening give the kids something to do."
INTERVIEWEE
"We all had fun."

INTERVIEWERS
"Do you think if there was more of these small teams there would be less juvenile crimes ?"

INTERVIEWEE
"Oh yeah. Sure it would. Damn sure it would."

INTERVIEWERS
"Cos. its sometling for the kids to focus on."
(Small talk with Mrs Boyer at which stage of the conversion she brought in refreshments)......Youth
club, baseball teams, you know the kids can channel their energy, excess energy they've got in the
summer - glves

them something to do.

INTERVIEWEE
"Well that's the good thing about sports."

INTERVIEWERS
"You think America would be

a nicer place

if they played more baseball

?"

INTERVIEWEE
"More sports. More sports for the young guy's."
INTERVIEWERS
"Do you think there's less ethic in baseball than there was forty years ago ? Was it a more honorable
game ?"

INTERVIEWEE (More small talk)

INTERVIEWERS
"Which was your favorite team in the area, was it the Pirates or was it a local team ?"

INTERVIEWEE
"Well I root for the Pirates now but I'm getting, she knows (meaning his wife) disenchanted with some
of them cos. I heard those guy's, when this strike started, J. Bell, the Pirate representative. His made

two million dollars

a year. The last time we were down in Pittsburgh at a ball game went up

to the

ticket window, tried to get tickets you know. You could see right through the ticket window, you
could actually see the field and they were out on the field, OK. And this ticket taker said, "them guy's
are

all millionaires". He was absolutely right."

INTERVIEWERS
"Yeah, they pull up in the big fast cars, the Jaguars."

INTERVIEWEE
"Yeah just like those professional football players - look at the money those guy's are making."

INTERVIEWERS
"So there's definitely been a decline in the ethics of the game ?"

INTERVIEWE
"Why sure there has

! Now

your playing for money, your not playng for sport or anything - your

playng for money now."
INTERVIEWERS
" Do you think you get this in the national teams as well

? In our nation... there playing for how much

they can get of a sponsor if the Pirates win the world series. There earnings go up. When you played

it was a team game."

INTERVIEWEE

"It was a team game and a fun game!"

INTERVIEWERS
"What do you think of it now ?"

INTERVIEWEE
"Its all money, its all money. It Its all business now, if you don't win your out that's all. That's all
there is to it anymore. Look at the managers. Look at the Coaches. These big schools, they are

fired. Managers in baseball, fued just because they didn't win. Yet there not playrng the game, now
they can do about it."

INTERVIEWERS
"That's right. One time you could afford to lose a season. Years ago you would lose a season and say
we would do better the next season. Who was the best player ? I've heard ofBabe Ruth but I don't

know who he was. "

INTERVIEWEE
"Well, I don't know Lou Garret. Played for the Yankee's."

INTERVIEWERS
"What time period was that ?"

INTERVIEWEE
"I think that was in the early forties."
INTERVIEWERS

If you were asked, who would you

say was the greatest player

? Most would say some-one from the

thirties, forties or fifties, never any modern day players ?"

INTERVIEWEE
"No because those guy's were not making that kind of money, they played because they wanted to

play. I think Joe DeMaggio.....ain't no ball player worth that kind of money. President of the United
States don't get that kind of money. You

know I just don't go along with this

. I know those guy's

got just

so many years

to play football, basketball or baseball, but that's their choice. Its not my

choice or any body else's. Its their choice."

INTERVIEWERS
"What do you think the game has lost and how do you foresee it in the future ?"

INTERVIEWEE
"Its gonna be rough in the future."

INTERVIEWERS
"You think so ?"
INTERVIEWEE
"Oh yeah, this strike and everything is gonna make it."

INTERVIEWERS
"That's sad isn't it ?"

INTERVIEWEE
"Yes, its awful sad. I don't think......

I

am really against the unions in these sports - I am really against

them. If I sign up for your ball club

-

whether its cricket or what the hell - I sign up for one hundred

thousand dollars for three years, that's what I should do. That's what I should do because I signed that

contract. Now you got guy's down here in the Steelers, there having trouble with a couple of their
players cos. they want their contracts renegoiating. They Ann's getting enough money! They signed

that contract for X number of dollars, by God they oughtta live up to
account - that's not my fault. That's them, they signed
much of the

it. Ball players

it. They can't blame that on my
got agents you know taking

so

top. Its ridiculous."

INTERVIEWERS
"Even have their own personal therapists and little things like that which cost you now. That's why
they are getting so much money because of hangers on."

2l

INTERVIEWEE
"Yeah, .....look what they are making on a commercial!"

INTERVIEWERS
"There's something definitely been lost in the game today ?"

INTERVIEWEE
"The games gone. The sport of the games gone! I gotta say that

.

Pop Storr told me that about

watching Football, basketball and baseball and, in small towns, high schools and everything thing else.
That time he told me I didn't really believe him. I know now from the College up here when guy's
wanted to play they may not have been the best but.

INTERVIEWERS
"And that's what baseball meant to you ?"

INTERVIEWEE
"Yeatq but they played and they tried - by God you can't beat that".

INTERVIEWERS
"The way I equate it, I equate it a bit

like

some of the English sports like

the game!"

INTERVIEWEE
"The same thing".

INTERVIEWERS

"It was the taking part in it!"
INTERVIEWEE

22

cricket. They play to enjoy

"Just like golf. I played a lot of golf. I did , don't now, but I did. And there's a guy called
Paul.....people down town have heard of him. Anyway I played a lot with him. Played on different

courses. We played for fuq ifyou won you won, OK!. If you lost you lost, so what!. You play the
best you can and that's

it. Now I got this Slippery Rock league,

its made up of college people and

town people, teachers and everyone else. Now Paul called me and said, hey you oughtta start playing

golf agairq there is a lot of money to be made out there. I am not playrng for money. I am playing for
pleasure!"

INTERVIEWERS
"When a sport is played seriously it becomes it becomes restricted and not everyone can participate."

INTERVIEWEE
"That's right! Hell, if I was playrng golf with you and you, shot ninety for nine holes it would not
bother me one

bit. What's the difFerence

?"

INTERVIEWER
"Yes, you play and at the end of the day you go and have a drink together or whatever."

INTERVIEWEE
"Yeah, of course."

INTERVIEWERS
"When you played after the game did you meet up with the other team

? There are some sports

were

teams meet up after a game and others were they do not."

INTERVIEWEE
"We used to play up the hill and there was a bar out there. The name of Jim West's - its way out in
the Boom

Docks. We all go out there and everybody would have a beer, talk the ball game over. No

23

animosity, no nothing you know. The ball game was over, sit around and have a hell of a good time.
We take our wives. Some thought we hadn't have the women - some the wives there. We had a good

time."

INTERVIEWERS
"There is only a couple of sports in England were they actually do that - were they have like cricket
they eat afterwards, even in Rugby. In rugby in England, most of the time, they meet up afterwards.

Over here I don't think the big baseball teams, you know,

as soon as the games finished they don't

socialize afterwards."

INTERVIEWEE

"No. No!"
INTERVIEWERS
"They always did in the minor leagues and the small leagues ?"

INTERVIEWEE
"Why sure they did. They did in the warty leagues. Hell our favorite thing is we always liked to head
towards Butler - they had a hot dog shop down there - we got one here now, but did not have one

then. Everybody liked to go down that way. Evans city, Mars, Chicora ways come back through
Butler and stop offat the hot dog store."
INTERVIEWER
"That's the thing what baseball has lost the most

? The enjoyment has gone out of the game ?"

INTERVIEWEE
"Yes, its gone out now completely."

INTERVIEWER
More serious ?"

24

INTERVIEWEE

V

"Its all business now"
INTERVIEWERS
"Do you think if there was more of the junior leagues, the game itself would be more richer ?"

INTERVIEWEE
"Oh yes, sure it would, sure it would. They got a little league up here now I think. But
these kids playrng

ball. You know,

as

well

as they may be, most

its nice to see

of them will never be college players.

You know their not good enough. No. But their staying of the streets. They've got something to
do."

INTERVIEWERS
"There's still a few of them, the only thing they've got to do is to go down to Sheetz and hang about
there for a few hours. Do you think if there was more games, or sports in general there would not be
as much

trouble ?"

INTERVIEWEE
"There's gotta be sports. The superintendent of the high school, we started to get sports, well my
daughter played basketball and soft ball. When I first got it

in. He was against it. I

girl has to have sport to. Maybe not football or anything like that
and

if they want to play. Gve them something

to

do."

INTERVIEWERS
"That's right, its the choice isn't it!"

INTERVIEWEE
"Yes it the choice - don't make them do it!"

v
25

.

said, no,

no! A

But they should play volley ball,

INTERVIEWERS
"When I was at school if you were forced to make sports that you didn't like you hated

it. The ones

you liked, if you could play therq you put everything in to it."

INTERVIEWEE
"Your damn right!".

INTERVIEWERS
"What do you thinh after this strike is over, baseball will come back or is it in the decline now ?".

INTERVIEWEE

"I'll tell you this I won't go to Pittsburgh to
free tickets, says his not going down,

see a ball game - I won't go again.

I'll go down,

see

My insurance man gets

if they bring rookies in. The guy's who are

trylng whether they win or lose - I will go and see them. I not going to see those god damn

millionaires! Just Ann's gonna do it!. That's what I feel about it - I Ann's going down."
INTERVIEWERS
"Was any of your younger family involved - you said you've got some sons and daughters. Were any

of these involved in the Baseball league ?".

INTERVIEWEE
"My eldest boy played little league ball. My youngest boy played little league football. My daughter
played soft ball and she played basket ball. She was a pretty good ball player. Probably the best one

out of the whole crowd. My youngest boy was a good Baseball player. In fact he played in the
county league all star team. He was a pretty good ball player."

INTERVIEWERS
"What did he do - did he just go into industry ?".

26

INTERVIEWEE
"No, he is working up the high school."
INTERVIEWERS
"Was any of the older family like your father involved with the game ?"

INTERVIEWEE
ttNo.tt

INTERVIEWERS
"So you were the first one in your family ?"

INTERVIEWEE
"Yeah, I think I was. I had a couple of uncles who played football and stufflike that. My dad didn't
play."

INTERVIEWERS
"We now need a little bit of your early history - where you were born etc. ?".

INTERVIEWEE
"July twenty, 7924.u

INTERVIEWERS
"Where were you born ? Were you born in Slippery Rock ?"

INTERVIEWEE

"No. I was born in Grove City hospital - Grove City."
INTERVIEWERS
"You've lived in this area all your life ?"

INTERVIEWEE
"Oh yeah - all my life. I've lived in this house all my life, right here"
27

INTERVIEWERS
"Was it your huse or was it your parents first ?".

INTERVIEWEE
"First of all it was my Grand Mothers/Grand Fathers.

old. He brought me down
ninths of

it. My dad bought

My mother died when I was only four years

here - that's what they tell me. And then the way

it ended up I owned two

the others out. So when he died it was my house. So I've lived here all

my life - right here."

INTERVIEWERS
"When you broke offduring the war, where were you ? In Europe ?".

INTERVIEWEE
"Yes, l was in the Five Rangers Battalion".

INTERVIEWERS
"You were in the Rangers ?"
INTERVIEWEE
t'Yestt.

INTERVIEWERS
"Really!"

INTERVIEWEE
ttYgstt

INTERVIEWERS
"And where about in Europe did you go to ?"

INTERVIEWEE

"I went to Germany, Belgium

and France, Austria"

28

INTERVIEWERS
"Where you in the D Day landings ?"

INTERVIEWEE
"Oh yeah. I was there half an hour before the first landings. I know what that was like."

INTERVIEWERS
"Why were you there before the first landings ?".

INTERVIEWEE
"We went in half an hour before the first wave. If you seen any of that sixty minutes, Three Company,

Second Battalion climbed the cliffs. Was in the fifttq our job, was to come in behind."

INTERVIEWERS
"To knock the strong points out ?".

INTERVIEWEE
"Yeah, we went in half an hour before the first wave. In fact was up on the hill were the first wave

hit."
INTERVIEWERS
"My Grand Father was in D Day. He worked for

a

RAF Battalion - he would fir American Typhoons

anti tank aircraft. He came over on the second wave. To one of the first air bases established."

INTERVIEWEE
"I was nineteen years old!".
INTERYIEWERS
"You felt

as

if you were really old then didn't you!".

INTERVIEWEE
"I tell you, you learned some lessons in a hurry. Not nice one's! But you learnt some in a hurry."

29

INTERVIEWERS
"No Baseball played during the war years ?".

INTERVIEWEE

"No. Not that I know of. I think the major

league played".

INTERVIEWERS
"Once the war started everything stopped ?".

INTERVIEWEE
"Yes, everything stopped. In this area there was a fellow went to college name of Gooseman. He

was telling us after the war the major leaguers - the guy's drafted out of the major league. The
formed them into Baseball team. They traveled to different camps and played exhibition games to
entertain the troops. Gooseman said he was Fort Meely. he said they got a camp team up. And they
ere gonna play these major leaguers. Like I said, this Gooseman was a good pitcher. Elony Fletcher
used to play first base for the Pirates he turns

up.

Gooseman thought to himself I am gonna show this

guy. I'm gonna put the whamie to him. He said as far as I know that ball might be in Allegheny
territory. I don't know where the hell it went. He said I have never seen a Baseball hit so hard in my

life. We p-played soft ball after the war was over in Europe.

There was nothing for us to

do. We

were on our way home. So they started organizing soft ball teams, basket ball teams. We all played.
There was nothing else to

do.

That's what we did - we played basket ball - soft

that boat was headed ball across the way.

INTERVIEWERS
"That was a good time ?".
(Small talk about dog and t.v.)

"Did you go over to D Day to celebrate 50th anniversary ?"

30

ball. For all we knew

INTERYIEWEE
"No, because you had gone over to Paris and the rooms were booked. My oldest son and daughter
were trying t o get me over there. But everything was taken up from Normandy - all the region."

INTERVIEWERS
"They were ?".

INTERVIEWEE
"No I didn't. I would not mind going over but I didn't want to go at celebration time. No. I would
like to go over and........"

INTERVIEWERS
"Just go over and have a look yourself ?".

INTERVIEWEE
"Yeah".

INTERVIEWERS
(Small talk about British t.v. show depicting veterans returning to Normandy years later)

INTERVIEWEE
"I would not mind seeing that cemetery".
INTERVIEWERS
"The one still has though the just been laid last year. You know the grass is cut every few days.

I

have been to a few of them as it is part of France. I go through to go to Paris. They really still take
care of the cemeteries.(Small talk about Slippery Rock and the college.

Mr Boyer

asks how we

arrived at the college. Local problems are discussed and the recent fire at Keisters. General attention
is paid to fire safety simply because

Mr Boyer is a retired fire chief. After refreshments Mrs Boyer

became more and more involved in the interview and frequently voiced her opinions. She talks about
her involvement with the college and the need to get towns people/community more interested
31

.

Most

sports are discussed briefly, especially the spirit in which they were played under. Baseball is
mentioned

. The interview resumes from this point)

INTERVIEWEE
"You guy's don't know Casey. He used to be the manager and coach. He used to say they were not
tryrng to make Casey's team. This is supposed to let the kids play. You've got fifteen guy's in your
team - let em all play. Don't matter how good they all are. That's got nothing to do with it".

INTERVIEWERS
"That's right! Its got nothing to do with

it.

The idea is to get them into the team. To get then

involved".

INTERVIEWEE
"Yeah, let them play. What they do is turn friend against friend. (short four way conversation then

ensued) I tell you the last year Harrisville were involved in the little league, we took a all star team.
The best players we had went to Butler to play, one of their teams. Now we didnt know to much

about the rules in Butler as far as fans were concerned, Coaches were concerned and every thing else.

first place you had to do, you had to let the kids coach. First and third base. Which is a good idea. Let
everybody be involved. All the kids be involved . The next thing we learned in a hurry was if you

if

you got a kid playing, your up in them stands your screaming at em. they just say noting to you. They
just walked out there ( meaning the parents) and took their kids out of the Balgame. You sat up there
enjoy the Ballgame. A dam hard shot. This is a kids game. You know. Lets knock this off. No fighting
between the parents or the people.

No. No. Let the kids play. Well it got so bad before we quit. We

used to go to the little league ball games up here. We never had any problem playing, it was just
something to

do. The parents would not even sit with

32

each, if the kids were on different teams."

INTERVIEWERS
(Talk about local game and how in
to give each player a chance of

a

a

friendly game of volley ball the players are alternated in positions

game. At which point Mr Boyer intercedes ).

INTERVIEWEE
"Yes when I was working in the little league you know. You had fifteen players on a team. And I had
a

kid down there, I'm telling you the truth, if I stood from here to here (approximately one yard) and

throw him
baseball

to

a

baseball. It would probably hit him on the head. Just tossing

save his

him be a Coach

it. He couldn't

play

arse. So his dad came to me one day. He wanted to get his kid involved. I let

. Third base Coach. He was happier than hell. That kid was happier than hell, boy.

"I'm involved now, I'm in this ball game". And he was a good Coach. Well a few years later, I didn't
pay much attention. He was Don Murry's son.

I didn't pay much attention. The high school down

there had a baseball team. And I was reading the Sports page one night and just happened to look at

Riddick in left field. This was the kid who could not throw a ball
so down at the street and they said yeah its

to.

So I asked a couple of people,

him. The thing is we had kids in little league, that when

we first started they were good. But they never developed any further. They didn't get better. We
had kids that were no good, that's a bad

term. They couldn't play baseball. But they ended up being

good when they got older."

INTERVIEWERS
"You didn't throw them away because they were no good ?"
INTERVIEWEE

"No. We didn't throw

em away. We kept em. Let em play. Now we had a Coach down there

supposedly, I don't know what the hell he

was. Chambers or something lived out there in the corn

room, out there in the ridge. Supposed to have been a major leaguer at one time. I don't remember

him. I'd never heard of him. But

he was playing Casey Stinggal. And he never substituted anybody.

33

He wanted to win regardless. And he didn't care how you played the game. That's not what little
league is all about and sports are about. Well they had a little pitcher that Royster

kid.

Remember

you said they ruined his arm. Oh, yeah they ruined him. They pitched him every game. Oh they
ruined him. he was eleven or twelve years old."

INTERVIEWERS
"Because he was the best one of the time, just didn't rest him ?"

INTERVIEWEE
"He was the best one so he played. And after in little league he just could not pitch any more. (More
small

talk. Mr Boyer then reminisces about the old days)....I liked it back in the old days when you

didn't get no scholarships. If you want to play football, you went out for football. If you wanted to

play soccer, you went out for soccer. If you wanted to play basketball you went out for basketball."

INTERVIEWERS
"But you still had all your studies to do."

INTERVIEWEE
"And you played because you wanted to play. And the Coaches tried to do the best they could with

you. If you won fine, if you lost so what. But they had

some good ball clubs up there in those days.

They had as good a soccer team as you would find one."

INTERVIEWERS
"They haven't got a good team up there now."

INTERVIEWEE
"They played Pitt up there. Pitt was big time you know. Big time. I remember Archie Dodds he was
Coach of the soccer team and he said, "the only thing I know is that we were playrng for the damn

uniforms". Because they had fancy uniforms. (Laughter). But those guyrs were playrng because they
wanted to, no scholarships. No one was glven them any books or free broad or any of this jive. No,
34

you've got Indiania and Edinboro up there for example. They give out scholarships all over the place.
Negative football players. This Coach at Indiania. He was the Coach at West Virangia. And you otta

know he didn't take that job down there because of anything else but that he would get the
scholarships down there. Now that's not

right. Its not right.

There's a lot of good high school

athletics around the country but even high schools like Butler, Sceneca Valley, New Castle, North

Hills. You look at the papers.

Those high schools are out to

win. They don't gtve a damn, there out

to win. That's sportsmanship's gone out of it."
INTERVIEWERS
"What annoys me is that in some of the sports now they fight on the pitch such as football, ice hockey
and

that. That is not a professional sport." (Small talk ofEnglish

game, t.v. and sports in general.).

INTERVIEWEE
"Its not like it used to be, even the NCCA basketball. Basketball, I don't if you would call it a
gentlemen's sport or not but you played basketball and you played for the fun of

it. You did the best

you could, if you won fine, if you lost. You lost, that's all. Not today boy. You got to win. You got
to win. (Small talk on the merits ofHarlem Globe Trotters and Olympic team ofMagic Johnston).
What you have to remember is that I went to my high schools fiftieth reunion two or thnee years ago.
And in the book they had a picture of our high school basketball team. We didn't have a guy six feet

tall. We finished up fourteen

and

two. There was no one

six feet

tall. Now you have to be seven feet

tall or you can't even play."
INTERVIEWERS
"Not a question of whether you can play, only how tall you are." (More talk of Harlem Globe

Trotters. Talk of local team and reaching finals at Kansas City. Also about Magrc Johnson and
Michael Jordan as well as players wages and earnings.)

At which point the tape and interview ends.
35