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SRU ORAL HISTORY
,SLTPPERY ROCK UNIVERSITY IN THE SIXTIES"

INTERVIEWEE: MARIE WHEATON
INTERVIEWER: LEAH M. BROWN
02 NOVEMBER 1994

B:

This is the second of November 1994, and this is Leah Brown interviewing Marie
Wheaton, who is here to tell us about some of her memories of Slippery Rock
going back as far as she wants to go back. Where do you want to start, Marie?

W:

Why don't

I start with, well I can remember from 1957 because that's when I

came here-

I was here as a student earlier, but I'll just talk

about my first

teaching job here.
B:

Oh, okay- Maybe we'll get back to the student story later.

W:

I think it's kind of interesting how I got my job at Slippery Rock especially when
I thitrk of the p(rcess people

have to go through to get a job here now.

I

had a

forlsen

i

friend that was in a graduate class here with I)r. Paulson who was the head of our
department. She had a graduate class with him. He was asking people in the
graduate class
.7!ittt*r

'

if

there was anyone that they knew of that would like to teach

dt! ('

in thd/Ptrysical Education department, and then my friend raises her hand and she
said that maybe

I would like to teach there. That I'm over in New Castle.

B:

In the public schools?

}V:

In the public schools, yes- So the next thing I knew

llr.

e

Paulsln walks into my

physical education class at George Washington Junior High School. My friend

(2)

W:

didn't bother to tell me that she told him that- And

he

just walked in and he said

would you be interested in teaching at Slippery Rock. And I said, yes, I would beSo he said, why don't you come over next week or set a date and

to Dr. Weisenfluh, who is

/

tne $esiOeot.

I'll

introduce you

Of course, I already knew Dr-

Weisenfluh. I'd had him in classes when I was a student here. So I came over and

I

had the interview with

else. After

Dr. Weisenfluh- I don't think they interviewed anybody

I had my interview with Dr. Weisenfluh I was hired

and that was

it.

B:

And you knew that same day?

W:

No, it was a week later. I'm sure he must have discussed it with somebody. I don't

know. But there was no meeting a committee or writing letters or sending my
resume- Not a thing- I've been on many of these committees here t , *#fi(;i"
elJ,..t.,'i,',
@ucation department on the hiring of faculty and I think of the process they

{

go through now it's just something. The difference is just tremendous.

B:

So that's how you got the job?

W:

Yes-

B:

You didn't apply?

W:

No.

B:

And you didn't apply anywhere else?

W:

No.

B:

You were happy where you were?

I

(3)

V

W:
,/'

Well, I'd often thought wouldn't it be nice to teach at Slippery Rock. I'd often
t{16?Gf
thought about it.tlfu even said that to my friend.

I don't know. I must have said

that to her-

g

B:

Did you know Dr. Pauls\n?

W:

No-

I hadn't known him. No- He wasn't here when I was here before, but I did

know Dr. Weisenfluh.

B:

So that was

W:

In May. This was in the spring that I got the job because I was teaching- I mean

in 1957, and you

started when?

he walked right in my physical education class. I didn't know who he was, and he

just came right out and said, would you like to teach at Slippery Rock?

B:

In the middle of your class?

W:

Yes, in the middle of my class.

I didn't know who he was or anything- That's

different.

B:

So you came over here?

W:

Yes. Maybe

I'll just tell you a little bit what my teaching job was like when I

first came here.

B:

Okay.

W:

And

I'll have to kind of like compare it to what it was when I left. Big difference.

In the late fifties, you were expected to teach everything in physical education.
You name

it.

You taught

it. It didn't

matter what your experience or background

was in those different areas like folk dancing, swimming, glmnastics. The whole

thing- You had to know it all.

All sports. Because my speciality

was in team

(4)

W:

sports and individual sports. That was really what

best. So my first schedule
and

t/
y L/

I

I felt that I could do the

had a health class, which

I hadn't

been teaching,

I had a Elmnastic class. And we're talking about over in the West Gym- That

was our teaching arsa, East and West Gym.

hockey and some team sport things that
years

I

I

had a

folk dance class,

and

was more familiar with, But those first

I spent all of my evenings preparing for these subjects that I didn't

anything about, and that

lrd
lsome

know

I wasn't too experienced in-

B:

How many preparations did you have then?

w

Oh, goodness, there was tro limit - I mean they didn't try to narrow you down to
J"'sf
/rq
two or three preparationlimt wherever they needed you they put you, Itomatter

lr/ v

if
,
V

./

you had taught that before or what. You were supposed to know everything

about all things in physical
education. So the funny
I J
J thing
9 was though.was the
')

gymnastic class in the West Gym with 45 students, and we had zero equipment in

l/

I

mean zero. The department was so poor considering that we were a
S4..,heo l,
physical eOucatioJffi'yto *ootd have thought that some of their frrnds could
those days.

have been put into supplies and so on for physical education, But no, we had

nothing. Wally Rose was a teacher here and he had his own trampoline. So we
would put that in as part of the equipment that we were going to teach,

I'd

y'

ild

have to go see Wally the day before and take a lesson on something on the

trampoline which

I

had never been on so that

I'd be prepared to teach the next

day- We used the men's parallel bars- Women don't even use parallel bars, but

,t'

that's what we hadrso I had teach something from the parallel bars- Climbing

/

(5)

w

rolles- That's what we had- Swedish boxes which

I think was part of the antique

hall of fame back in those days and I don't know

if it's still over there or not.

I don't know.
B

,r/

w

&

What are Swedish boxes?

They're little firnny-tooking

Vddf
boxes that you
\ over. Kind of like a horse but not.

*\#ffh",

had all kinds of ladders. Walking along on ladders.

It was a Swedish

Of course some tumbling. Tumbling mats and things of that sort. But the frlnny

y'vn

thing was we had

uIV oyer the heafu an indoor track. I don't know if that
I \rx\

was here when you were here-

I don't think it was here- It was a round, round

thing up in the air around, and while you were teaching some section of the
class would be up there running.

It

It would be banging and meking all this noise.

should have been condemned, and

it was still going.

it was soon after that, but at that time

So people would get up there bouncing and banging around

on this indoor track while you're down here teaching these other events down on

the floor.
B:

Wonderfrrl working conditions.

W:

Fantastic conditions, and then the square dancing.
records because

I looked for records

you could listen to the call. Like

if

I was always buying my own

that had the calls right on them, and then

you don't know the square dance and you're

trying to call it you have to really know it- And I didn't know these dances

'l/
,V

I would have to learn what all these
call

it,

and then

I could

stop

it

"Urc

and teach

so

ffi". I'd let the guy on the record
it

and go like

tha[

But what a

(6)

w

t/

struggle.

5

ll.oun"

What else can I tell you about tnb$ early teaching days?

Oh, we neyer had enough equipment- We shared like basketballs and volleyballs
with the men's varsity team, we didn't have women's varsity team. So if the men
were going away for a basketball game, they'd leave maybe at two o'clock in the

afternoon- Well,

t/

if you had a basketball

class from two to four, they took the

basketballs. So when they weren't down there
taking the basketballs and

I

{'l*,,' - ''''

I said to Dr- Pa'ulsqn,

the men are

have a class. And he said, well, you'll just have

to use volleyballs. It's just unbelievable the lack of equipment we had in those
daysB

Well was the whole school poor?
^

l,/

w

Well, yes, really.

rnereffi'l;t"

no budget or something for equipment and

supplies and things of that sort, but with a school with a major, you would
goodness.we should have a few supplies like

t/

I

,0,17

that- ,"./\
'' \

As soon as I arrived in Slippery Rock they were talking about the new facility, the

new fieldhouse, and
those years,

I don't thitrk it was completed until 1962. But all through

it was under discussion, under planning, committees and committees-

t/

Looking at blueprints and designing this and designing that-

t/

years to really get that thing

B:

Vw
\B:

ffiilermry-

t)-'dlr*

h

>a'x

J+

thq took that many
,

Did faculty or you have any input into that?
Yes, about five

9'7,*

y

years. Dr-$a--{"/-

4a

**r*,

/,.+r-I.

q{,r

ry

lLbl4t^-o/ '

(7)

w

The physical education faculty actually planned the thing. Now

I

never got the

opportunity to go to another universit5r or just see another fieldhouse- I didn't
know what they were talking about- We did a lot of studying of blueprints, and

fighting over whether we should have handball courts, which the men loved to
haye, or should we have a dance studio. Should we mark the main floor with

great big emblem

a

of a rocket in a Slippery Rock or should we mark it with

badminton lines and should we call the rest rooms WC closet things or women's
t/

/

;..'!'

;.^..

't.-

1;

restrooms and men's rettrooms-

All

these

little detail argumentative things

that you had to solve. The sad part was that they put that on the most beautiful
women's athletic fields, the soccer fields, the hockey fields,
beautifrrl facility. And while they were building

it was just a

it, they sent the women

down

Kiester Road where there was a farm- There was a farm down there where you
came in. There was a barn. They sent us down there. I remember going down there

that first fall when they started excavating and qneesulda# we couldn't
have our classes up there. We went down oyer the

hill. They never

bothered

to clear off the field- It was like corn stubble- We had to get in there with
the students and stomp these

"o-

B:

They did that just to the women?

W:

Yes. The men

I

slalks down for our fields.

guess they used their football stadium

field. But those were

the women's fields they said. They belonged to the women. So down over the

t/

we had to go.

I

have a picture of this that

hill

't6
I'm going to havdnPut it in

the Archives sometime. It's a picture of the barn. The top of the barn is gone

(8)

w

but the boffom part is there, and the farmer had goats and sheep.

B:

Was that the Gerlach farm?

w

Yes. We would go down there and after we had this cleared off a little bit and
get set up for our classes, and the sheep and the goats would all climb up
on to this barn platform here and stand there, and

I have a picture of them-

They are all lined up looking down on us playing hockey on their cornfield-

It's the firnniest thing- I'm going to get that developed

someday and send

it

up.
B:

We can make a copy of

w

I'll

it

here and give you back your original.

dig it out someday and send it up.

I have a whole

series of pictures of the

fieldhouse and all its developments. Step by step.

lr/

't

B:

That would be wonderful to have and we would make those copies-

W:

The thing

ofI(that

was most disappointing to me about the fieldhouse, you know

$*{ art i'v"
I'm stupid about reading blueprint$ftqr rdading them for five years, you

think I would have understood how that thing was going to look. But when I
walked in there when that thing was completed and

l/

teaching

I found out that all those

stationsffir*n- I thought there was a wall that went around the

walkway here and that your teaching facility down here was enclosed. That was
always the most disappointing thing to me.
teach in that building.

I

It's the most distracting thing to

hated to teach there.

I always

wanted to go up to

the East Gym because they line up here and they look down at the class and they

yell at people in class and it was most distracting and I was so disturbed at the

(e)

W:

teaching station. Disappointed in it-

B:

And it's still that way.

W:

It's still that way, yes- I

y{+o a',r l,r'r-a-,{''
ilaq(Of-ts.$ere disappointed in it. I know

-2<x,a.

guess not

I thought there was a wall that went around like that.

B:

It

W:

Because students changing classes and whatever and they were yelling down at

made teaching a challenge, didn't it.?

people in the class and they were looking up at people walking by and
most disturbing really- So

I

it was

never really liked that about the fieldhouse.

Oh, there was a big battle about the size of the locker room- The women's
locker room was like this and tAe men's locker room was like this and a lot

of little battles like that about staff, faculty locker rooms. The women's
was like this and the men a big size one.

All

those little battles you

had to go through.

B:

You battled

W:

We didn't always win. Well, we got a dance studio. We only had one handball

it but you didn't win.

court, and we did have a dance studio, It was too small to be an excellent

l/

t/

/

facility or anything, but we did have it. WeIl, we won a few. They never put
las'OT rtPt" ' r" o

wc on tne iIQL'r.

They put women and men. But anyw ay/,

it

was an

experrence-

What else can I tell you? About the school as a whole. Like the administration
as a whole. What
B

it

was like in those days.

Sure. lYe're talking about the years from?

(10)

W:

/,/

,r/rl

1957

to 1960. Dr. Weisenfluh

those years-

or. raulsfi*",

I

p*riOent. He was still
fiesiOeot io

*",

chairperson and

I think he was chairperson of

our dqrartment until 1962. I think the year we moved into the fieldhouse

v'

naors|?

rct.

The general atmosphere on campus was so much different, but the teachers,

the staff,

it

was so different. How can

I

say? f,)r- Weisenfluh was a yery strict

person. He was very teetotaler. I know at the interview I was asked

I smoked. I don't think

he hired anybody that drank or

if they

if I drank or

said they drank.

You never heard the faculty say, oh, we got together and had a cocktail, or

/

,/

we drank, or we did

thisf

B

They might have done it.

W:

They may have done

it. And there

i!

had a party. They neyer mentioned it-

I'm sure. They probably did. But no one ever mentioned

was no drinking on this campus at any event ever. He was very

straight.

,r/

B:

ta

So that came all the way from the

tojfrom

the president.

I L'"1^
W: All the way from the top. I never heard anybody, and#rc*rcto

the little

faculty gatherings and parties and never saw any liquor or beer at any of these
parties. He was like a benevolent king and when he would call a faculty meeting
everybody came. They usually had

B:

When

W:

Yes. Maltby. Right- That's where

it in the old library, the counseling

center.

I came the library was in Maltby.
the faculty. ..
it was. That's where they held'E;;+hlt"*1)

meeting. And all the faculty would sit in this room,

ild

when Nang/and

I would

(1 1)

W:

y',t

r'

go, it would be like going to a RotarSr meeting. There were veryJ few women then'g-lb.^r"t,
-! nn,, eL
'hink
ElementarylS. and maybe some librarians,
Three in our department, and I

tuAt**
but very few. All men. That's \e all the business took place. Right thereI never

heard of a committee.

If

you wanted to say anything to the president

about any situation, you went to this meeting. And

it was an open meeting,

and

you could discuss any business affairs or any administrative things, and he
decided. Yes, yes, we'll put some motrey into this, or no, no, we won't, and
he

,/

just was like a littte.l -f\,.3 .

B:

He ruled the kingdom-

W:

He ruled the kingdom, and they were all right there.

The reason

I

All of these men, mostly men,

remember that is because one time, this is getting into women's

athletics and so on, but at that time we were not allowed to mention, the women,
were not allowed to say, here is a team from Sltppery Rock. Everybody was
l^ta l*-{-h

against

wo\n

'IY

intercollegiate teams. You were not allowed to. We used to do

it anyway. I used to take students down to Geneva

and we'd play hockey, but

we were not allowed to say, here comes the hockey team from Slippery Rock.
B

What were you supposed to say?

w

You weren't supposed to go. There was no intercollegiate competition. It was not

in the philosophy hereB:

Just for women you mean.

w

For women, yos, just for women.

B:

The men went?

(12)
W:

Oh, yes, but the women were not permitted to have intercollegiate- But Nancy and

I were both into hockey. We belonged to a hockey organization in Pittsburgh. So
we went down to this organization when they would have their tournaments and so

on and Pitt would be there- Pennsylvania College for \Yomen would be thereCarnegie Mellon would be there. We would take our little group in and we weren't
allowed to say, here's a Slippery Rock team. So Nancy and I decided that's enough

of that. I always bought station wagons in those days.
B:

You carted them.

W:

I

carted them down there. Occasionally another student would have a car. There

weren't very matry cars around in those days, but a student would have a car that
would volunteer to drive, and I would take my station wagon, and we'd load them

all in there and go down thereB:

Just on your own?

W:

On our own. We paid everything. No uniforms- You brought your own hockey
stick. We just went down and played. So Nancy and I thought, well, that's
enough of that. We're just going to take this to this "Rotary" pssting, Dr.

Weisenfluh, and make a presentation, and tell him, we're so far behind.

/

Everybody has an intercollegiate team now, and not a very well organized
Aa-s.-b
':Bs*rnlor anything like that, but they had teams. So we went in and we made

this presentation. All these men. All we wefe asking was, could we have
permission to take this team to Pitt, or wherever we were going, and say
that we were a team from Shppery Rock. We didn't ask for money. We didn't

(13)

w

ask for gas. We didn't ask for lunch- We didn't ask for one thing. We just
wanted permission to say that we were from Slippery Rock- And he sat there and
he listened to

it,

and then he said, well, you know, way back in the 1930's

we did have intercollegiate sports here for women. He said,

I don't

see why

we can't at least say that you're from Shppery Rock. So we thought we won a

victory. We could say, here comes the hockey team from Slippery Rock! That
was a far cry from what they have for intercollegiates for women now. But

that was like a step, one step.
days, the faculty tea.
now

if

If

he called a tea, we were into teas in those

If we had a call for tea, all the faculty

came-

I mean like

the faculty want to go to something they go, but you went to the tea.

If

they had a freshmen reception, you went formally, in formal attire to the tea.
B:

Long dresses?

w

Yes. You had to get dressed up to go to those affairs- Long gowos. And the
students came, the freshmen came in long gowns. The whole atmosphere was like
he made all the decisions for the campus, and

if you wanted to say anything,

you just got yourself to the meeting and say something, ffid

if

then

he called a meeting

you all went to the meeting.
B:

But he did listen?

w

Yes, he listened. Sure. He was like I say a benign dictator, benign king, let's put

it that way.
B:

All right.

w

Very stern, strict man- I had him for classes and I know he was strict.

(14)
B:

But fair.

w

But fair, yes- He just ruled with an iron hand that's all. But that's the way
things were done in those days. You didn't have all this democratic input, and

faculty committees. I think when

I left I spent

three-fourths of my time on

committee work. In those days you spent all of your time on your teaching- And
then later on

it

seemed like the teaching became less importanf

I don't want to

say that, but you spent less time on that, and you spent more time on committee

work. That I think was the biggest difference in those ye:us as compared to now.

r

So what else can
sports

B:

t/

W:

I tell you? I can tell you a little bit more about the women's

programr

ancy and

SrYLt;/t'm1'
-Be*bole,nate.
a

Sne taught down at Indiana

Old Main there's this

V

after she left here- She taught at Indiana

while and then at some private school in Pittsburgh for a while, and we both

shared an apartment here-

V

were

Nancy was Nancy?

for

/

I

I'll
I

tell you where we lived- On the corner across from

out

Sfl

hugii thilk it's a fraternity house now, a huge house-

Meyhe it'S hUf-gl dnwO,I rlOnittneryr"

@rodtcrch

f

CIis+ig€fid€nt'. A faculty member owned that and

we had an apartment up on the second floor
shared an apartment up on that second

{Aot"

first years. Nancy and I

floor. The students at that time wanted

intercollegiate sports- They wanted to go. They were just dying for intercollegiate

activity. If we would say, we're going to send a team down to Pittsburgh for field

(15)

W:

hockey, which was a big sport that the two of us liked, and we're going to have
some coaching at four o'clock, come on down and try out for the team, we would

have four teams come down, and we would have enough to practice with two

/t/

games going on f,er-pFa€Seq)fnO tnen we would have to select one team to go.

And then what we would do was like at the end of a badminton unit or something
that you had in class, you would maybe finish off your unit with a little
tournament and the ones that won rou just asked them

t/'

if

they would like to travel

down to Geneva and play there. The top four players or six players or whateverThat would be the way we got started. The different sports we would just take

t/

a team. Now we

U.!-e"}t-t-

still had on Saturday afternoons what t\ called tlc*play days.

A different unit of schools around would ilvite students to come- A group of
students would go down from Slippery Rock. Let's say we were going down to
Geneva and we would gather

t/,,2

vV

all in

all these other college students together. Put them

{

teamlf it was Halloween time, it might be the witches

and the

po-ptio, or

something.

\( fi, *#

and the scarecrows

teams like that and then they

would play basketball or whatever the sport was going on. It would be like an

informal playing with college students, but you wouldn't really play Slippery
Rock

a

B:

The teams were mixed up?

W:

Mixed up. So you got to play at a higher level skill. They called them play days
and sports days.

B:

So you got to meet other people and play with them. That was a good experience.

(16)

W:

Yes, right- That's kind of the competition they had a lot of in those days. So
we did have a lot of that, but we wanted to edge away from that and get into

this name Slippery Rock and go over here and play Carnegie Mellon. You know
like that, and play them as a team which we were able to do, but very informallyWe had a W.A.A. which was the Women's Athletic Association at that time, but
that was more of a recreational thing here on campus that we played. It was very

active. In fact, talking about students, they came and supported that. Like now

I don't really know how many go to these recreational things, but the faculty was
all there, and we would have these teams- The green and white. They were the
winners- A real competitive type of thing on campus. Of course, we had a lot of
good athletes.

t/

V

It would be very competitive-

B:

You said that there were only three women in the department? You and Nancy-

W:

And we had one,

B:

That's okay.

W:

We had a couple of other women, and they finally got around to getting a dance

t/

f,;tuu
\r. What was her name?

person. That wis,
which

*",

I think, the first person they brought in was a dance pgrson

#Mfrir%{Ee#';f#:lgf;*lf,X;'*:';;:';f';#.J" **,

year I was here. That's when I took over synchronized swimming because she had

that and I took that over and had that for twenty-two years. Synchronized
swimming shows. Imagine putting on twent5r-two synchronized swimming shows.
So that's how that athletic thing was very active. Students

all came and

participated and that was their competition- That was it. They were all part

(17)

w

of it, but when you get into the intercollegiate thing, then you have to select
the top, and they're the ones that get the good experiences competing on a

higher level. Eventually, those W-A.A- programs became more specialized, and
they expanded, and, of course, when we got into the fieldhouse, they expanded
eyen more. We were very restricted up there in the two floors. Especially
when the men's varsity had to play up there in the East@m, too. So we were

J'

very restricted on the time inside that we could get the floors and so on and
playThe students in those years, they probably didn't have to pass such a high

SAT score to get in. I think they took anybody in in those days who wanted to
come here. When physical education came,

I don't think they had too many

restrictions or entrance requirements.
B:

Just that they graduated from high school-

w

Right. I don't think they were very strict- They were very enthusiastic. They
were yery, whatever you did for them, appreciative. Thc5lq61g:Eere,

I'm

comparing now from back years to front years. They were enthusiastic- They'd

l//

be lacking a little bit on the academic level, but still they had a good

attitude about wanting to learn, and a sense of obligation.
an example of that.

I'll just tell you

I did scheduling, but I was always scheduled for

class. Eight o'clock.

If

a Saturday

you would schedule an eight o'clock Saturday class

at this institution today, you would be lucky to get three people to go.
Nobody would.

B

:

-d

v

rl

i

(18)

W:

No. But they came- They came to class. There was no thought of cutting class.

I mean they didn't

cut classes in those days-

I mean maybe occasionally

somebody would cut a class, but you had no problem with students coming to
class.

If it's eight o'clock in the morning on a Saturday, they came.

B:

That's what they were here for.

W:

That's what they were here for- They came. I think of some of those last years
that I taught. There was something down here at a bar on Thursday night for
college students. Down towards Butler-

B:

On

W:

Yes, right. And they had a Thursday night college night- At ten o'clock on

by tn" Muddy Creek flats-

Friday morning I'd be lucky to have half my kids in because they had been down
to the bar on a Thursday night.let alone talk about coming to class on a

)

Saturday morning.

l./

B

Night People's Place.

W:

Yes, that's

it.

appreciated

dar.

Whatever you did in

it.

For 27 years

I

tnogffor students, it

secms as those they

sponsored the women's honorary

M,*Je fe't€- aetti'iY.
education- And we used to twice a year de.eem\ I like to camp, so

in

physical

w

talked me into doing some little camping thing. So we would go. One year we
went up here,

hg*ood

Up in there there was

&.,".

Up here in back of Founders Hall someplace.

I Sr*ood 6."te. A campsite and fire ring and all that.

And we went up there in the fall. Just to get our program started, we'd all go
up and we'd meet and cook our hot dogs around the fire. We took up sleeping

(le)

w

bags, and we slept out in the open around the campfire like that, and just sat
and talked and planned our activities for the year- In the spring we would do
something else, At different times we went to Pymatuning Dam and camped

at

;r-

y la e e

where you could take and get a certification in canoeing. And the guy would

t/ l./

give it to us free. And we would go up there and camp

out*{Tust

things like

that that were just kind of fun things to do. And they all were eager. They wanted

to do it-

I

can remember last summer a student from those early days, I'd

completely forgotten about this camp thing, the student called and she said,

I'm up on Route 80. I'd

/

sent her a Christmas card, okay, but

I haven't

seen

h< f

since 1957,let's say- So she said, I'm up on Route 80- I'm on my way to
Colorado to camp.

I want to stop by and talk to you. I said, fine.

have to scoot down Route 60 to where

She'd just

I live. And she came in and we just had

the best afternoon. And she was reminding me of all this camping stuff that we

did- She said she neyer in her life camped before that and she said, since that
time she is an avid camper and hiker and they go out west every year and so on and
she

just wanted to stop to remind me that she really enjoyed those experiences that

we had- They were very informal and off the record kind of things that we had
B:

That's a wonderful tribute.

f,r:

Yes-

B:

Your influence goes on.

xr:

Whatever you did,
these

it wasn't like making them do things.

They wanted to do all

little things. But you have got to remember in those years there were no

w

(20)
L':r(r(}'
fraternities- Okay? Theretrno off campus housing. There were no buildings.

Everybody lived in the dorm. They were probably dying for a chance to get out

of the dorm or whatever to do something different. Fraternities, I think, made

t/

the biggest difference in college students/attitudes, enthusiasm for their

school- A lot of people are going to criticize this I'm sure. But
that was the start of the downfall

I thought

"t*iijlfident relations, enthusiasm

of the students for college, love of their college. You talk to kids back in
those days.they all loved Slippery Rock. You know

;)

I think

the kids today that

live off-campus in a fraterniprthey're missing something- They're missing

,/

what

\

I thought was important from

those

*1lrF

comradeship, a loyalty,

dedication to the college, attitudes were different-

B:

The main allegiance wasn't to the

w

Right, and right away we could see the difference in their interest in

was to the fraternity.

participating in W.R.A. activities. I can remember the honorary, We used to
Ti.&.1

t/
./

get together. lYeLad their W-R-A. activity on

vr

{/

a

Wednesday night, and most

of

the students would be over there participating at something in the gy..$oO
*Soe.t"rr'l
{.3
ttv.- rrra*
*he*ie*reqr.er.this group of student3lthey met on t{
night, and we

would make 5(X) sandwiches-&l go down to Isaly's and bring in barrels and all
)

this stuff to make sandwiches with and they would sit around the table and

"Z 1

make

rr l-*,cl,r^-La & rt-' rr-ql*t
all these sandwiches and whatevel anfhen the studefrts cad back to the

dorm after their activity and they'd be hungry and they'd go around the dorm
and sell sandwiches and make all this money. We had enough one time in the

(21)
W:

honorary to loan money, loan out money like for tuition- Say we had a student
that was in our group that needed help to graduate, you know to pay off their

tuition or something and we have enough money to loan them- Loan them money
at one time.
B:

That's beautifrrl.

W:

Yes. But after we got into the fraternities and not so many people were going
over to the W-R.A- and getting into all these other events that they were getting
intoathat all just kind

I

of frzzled out and at the end we didn't have any money

like everybody else. We didn't have any money- But that was the phase when we
were rich and we had a lot of money.

B:

That's so interesting and nobody ever mentioned that before.

f,r:

That's the way I feel about

it.

The thing that

I think really ruined the Delta

Psi Kapparwhich was the honorary in physical education\was the rule that came

t)

t/

in and said you couldn't have separate men's honoraries in physical education.
You couldn't have separate women's honoraries in physical education. They both
had to open up to men and women.

B:

And that happened?

W:

And that happened. I don't know when that was though. It was in the later yearsAnd when that happened again there goes the loyalty to this little group. You could
go to either one and it just ruined the whole idea.

I don't know why that was so

discriminating to have the men meet in theirs and the women do their thing, but
when the men and women met together,

it all went downhill. They lost all their

(22)

w

incentive to do things and get ahead and the fun things together were gone-

I

don't know why it was, but that was the way it was.
B:

It brought in a whole different dimension the relationship.

w

Yes. Different loyalty to the group and the whole business and just kind of

it all downhill. It

washed

What else could

was kind

of

sad

to see that go-

I say about students? Well, of course in those days, you'll

hear all the alumni say this, in those days you never walked across campus

that you didn't say hi to everybody you passed. That was just a standard

thing. I walked up here today from the parking lot and tried to look at people
and no one said hi-

B:

That's interesting. I try when I come up.

w

It's just a result of the school's growing, the attitudes are different- The
students do not have that same feeling about Slippery Rock that they did in the

/

fifties. It's not there- I blame it on off-campus apartments. Growthrand time

lr/

changesrlet's phrase

/

it that way. It's changed. But you

can see

it.

You can

see that difference-

B

You're right. People walk along and as they go by you they put their heads down

or away, they don't look so that you can say hi.

w

It

was

just a neat little attitude thing that this was a friendly atmosphere,

that thing just all went down the drain.

I won't

ild

say the kids back in those days

didn't have their beer parties and they used to go down to Rock Falls Park, I know
that, and have their beer parties down there. It was nothing, nothing like they have

(23)

w

now. What they need today is so much different
and pleasure.

fl.'l''}&

\what they want for enjoyment

I bet you couldn't talk five kids into going up on the hill

and

sleeping out in sleeping bags and sitting around the fire just for something to

do. You couldn't talk them into doing anything like that.
B:

Not unless they brought their beer with them.

w

Yes, right-

B:

Were there some particular students that you remember from back then

A^
frrI

went

,a.tz*^d'e"-fi

t/

oo)\

t//

w,

that you heard about later-

I write an awfrrl lot of 6h.ir,-".

"lril,

scholarship thing. Of course, that was not back in the fifties.
coaching volleyball

ir

t

'

a.

card stuff and I'?ed{y have geEeit with this

I didn't start

until 1968, I think. That's when I started working with that

group, a volleyball group. Of course I keep in touch with a lot of them. We had
a phone-a-thon, the coaches had

to get together here one time this spring, and we

called up all these old time volleyball players and talked to them about raising
money.
B:

For scholarships.

w

No, this was for athletic scholarships, right, athletic scholarship- But they
gave me the list of all the older volleyball players.

It

was a lot of frrn to talk

to a lot of them, and we have a lot of good students from those days that really
t

y

,1

Marge
A gid from New Castle,,_-_-o--on and they're doing great
went
wvAfvu
D.--. things. .-E'_.

bAdA

her dad was athletic director at New Castle at one time, and she's a professor
out

'o
oG

tt

I .'

,

University of Minnesota. We've had a lot of people from those days

-

)

(24)

w

that are doing great things. I used to see them when

I

was going to convention

too, Pennsylvania convention. I used to go down to that and see these different
people from then.

It's a great experience to

and progressed in the field of teaching.
B

Sure

I

it

see how they got ahead

in the world

It gives you a good feeling-

does. And they're having a good influence, as well, on their students.

You talked about Dr- Weisenfluh and a little bit about

nr. faukfn, ild

actually

I took a class with Dr. Pauk&.

w

You did? Really?

B:

Well, I wasn't a phys. ed. major, but I came here- We moved to Butler in 1956,
and

I

decided

I ought to have a teaching certificate. So I

came up to Shppery

Rock, and it was an intro course and he was teaching it- It had to be intro
because

I wasn't ready for anything else. But he was a tough

teacher and didn't

show much respect for physical education majors which really surprised me- Really

uncomplimentar5r, and

I wondered whether that was just in this class. tVlaybe we

didn't strike him favorably. How was he to work for otherwise?

w

He was hard to work for. He had his opinion, and no compromising, and he was

really hard to work for. I can't think of the guy's name, the man who came after
him that was so fantastic.
B:

It was so different.

w

He's out in Colorado.

B:

rilell, later on you might think of it

and we can insert

it. That's okay.

(2s)

w

He fantastic- He was the one who came in, and was the head of the department
when we first moved into the field house. He was more receptive- You could go

in talk to him. But

B:

Paulsy'ln.

Maybe he didn't like people in general?

* u'ot
W: I don't know-A(s a httle difficult, difficult to get along. Th,tr*aufrf+
ce*-{-renembee.lhat-nan's {etrre -

l/

r'.' .*

ct' to"you.' fl or-about"sme-orfte
'l
rr+'a-4 i.r.''l tL"e'i'r aL*.
't
t upuldrsef*et soine of the people that influenced me back in those days.!

cmtefi*xass.{holict-hsret Mary

Margaret Heffernan. She taught.

was here forty years- She was here when

I bet she

I was a student. She was here when I

came back, and she retired sometime while

I

was here, and, of course, she is

deceased now.

B:

w:

She was in that department?

""rp4T#iro",

was her thins. That was her speciality. But she couldn't

handle all the health classes. And you could go to her like
teaching

@\

if I wanted help in

I would go to Mary Margaret Heffernan because

she

would help

out. She was a real authority on the area of health. I have a lot of respect

for her, and a lot of influence.from Mary Magaret Heffernan. She was a

l/'

*fuTLerro)l\-

i-*rc 4,6*
wonderful lrerson. I woul$trsaV'TfrEsg Pletz. Anyone ever mention ilrqsa Pletz?

B:

I haven't

W:

You haven't heard that name. She was here when

heard that name.

student teaching, and when

I

I was a student. I had her for

came back to teach, she was here- She was

(26)

w

supervising the training school, the educationftraining school over here. She was

still connected to our department- If you ever talk to any of the old people from
like when I was a student, the one that everybody loved, respected, and you never
heard anyone say a bad word about her was Miss Compton- Compy. They called
her Compy. She was in the physical education department. Everybody loved Miss

Compton. She had a blond cocker dog. Everybody just loved her- No one ever said
anything bad about Miss Compton. Of course, she's deceased. She was deceased
before

I

came back to teach- She was not here. She was a wonderfrrl person that

probably influenced me more than anybody else in my teaching career actually.
Everybody that you would talk to old as

I am or older would mention her name.

B:

You wanted to be the kind of teacher she was?

\V:

Right. And the relationship that she had with students. The whole bit. She was
just an outstanding person. I don't know why they didn't name the field house for
her or something. They're naming everything for people these days aren't they.

Sort of name the field house for her.

B:

You're right. I wonder about some of those names.

W:

But anyway. What else can I tell you? I mean you could talk forever about students,

I mean that's what we were here for. And if I look back and think of what do I
miss about Slippery Rock I'm not much for reminiscing and nostalgia and all that

,/"t

,/y

kind of stuff. I really don't care to come back here too much. I think maybel
?

kind of sad. Is nostalgia supposed to be sadl I don't
sad.

knoql

lt's

always feel kind

I cried when I locked my ofFrce door for the last time- I

hated to leave.

of

(27)

w

I always

thought I'd probably live in Slippery Rock and be a part of the college:

communiqr. But when it came time to go I guess I had family ties and I was needed
in New Casfle. I just moved. And now I really don't care
back here.

B:

I

guess

it kind of makes

me kind

a

whole lot about coming

of sad. I don't know why.

Well, that's interesting. I come back quite often, but when I come back I hardly
know anybody. People have changed,

W: If I had stayed here and gone along and saw all this developing, it would be
different- When I come back and see the big change and whatever, but as I say
the thing that

the students.

I miss most would

be the students. Knowing the association with

I miss hiking. I used to come down every day with my mother and

dad and we'd hike down along the lakes. Where is that? Out in back of here. We
used to come down and park over by the back of the stadium there and just hike

around the lakes there and take my dog.

the students. Oh, naturally,

I miss that part very much and I miss

I miss the friends

that

I had here. I don't mean

that, but you know those are the things that stand out of what I really miss-

I don't know why I just don't like it. This is a f,rnny feeling- I can't explain
it.

B:

I understand it- I don't feel a part of it anymore-

W:

Right. Maybe that's it. \Ye don't feel like we're a part of it-

B:

Yesterday, when I was at the University Club, as

I walked through there

Wilma and she said, come on over, and I sat down-

W:

When is she going to retire?

was

(28)
B:

She says she may neyer retire- She's looking forward to the year 20(X) now.

W:

Wilma and I are from New Castle. She taught at Ben Franklin Junior High- I
taught at George Washington. We were doing sports back in those early

tal'.,

t/

&yr,

back in the early 1950's, we were taking our two junior hiUh\ and doing
sports together. rilhen

I

know when she came.

It'd

was here

in 1957,I think she came in

195E,

be interesting to hear her talk about

I don't

it- We had a

lot of the same background and same experience, and when she came, she was a
glmnastic expert. She took over all those terrible classes I taught.
B:

We have a tape of Wilma and

I

can let you read the transcript

if you're

interested.

W:

That would be iateresting to hear what she has to say.
I just can't tell you how much
college graduates, and

I

it has done for me. I came from a family with no

came from a rural farm community where

I don't think

there were ten people in my graduating class that went to college. Ten out of,

I think

/

there were 96 people in my graduating class.

B:

What school was that?

W:

Union Township High School in New Castle. An ouhirthe.country school, and I
came here out of the sticks. Believe me.

I never had a friend that went to college-

I had no idea what college was. I just had this burning desire to teach
education.

I

wanted to teach physical education.

physical

I didn't know anything

about

college life, and I came here. My father was not able to furnish my college
education right at that time. One of my high school teachers found a job for

(2e)

Pai+bJ

/w:

here. You know in back

6i,o)"r*

It's a cute little stone house. Right

,,/

t/ "/
t/v

there's a little stone house that sets there-

beside this fraternity house

I

was telling you

$eIf"li*

tA-

about. This little stone houseitk right there. BoydX Hved there the last time

I

heard, Sut anyway, there was a college professor that lived there. His name was
George Miller, and he and his wife, his wife was crippled, but they had adopted

j

t/ t/

twin girls that were, I think, nine years old. /Sd this teacher in New Castle
must have known this family or something, and she knew they were looking for
somebody to come and stay there and help take care of those two girls and

they would pay my rq)m and board. So that's how
came

I

I got here. And

when I

was from the sticks believe me- I thought you had to go to college

classes dressed up in

silk stockings and skirts. I went in all dressed up

the first day of classes and

I didn't

know anybody-

I

was really from the

/

sticks. I owe so much to this college for my lifgfor what has been done

,//

for me heqqit's just unbelievable.

rt|

B:

Opened up the world.

w

Oh, gosh. I go back to high school reunions and all those kids ulhefe farm

l^tQJLl-

kids, and they're all still farm oriented. Nothing wrong with farming. I
love farming. Here

I am with my big gardens

and everything-

I love

farming.

But they're married to farmers and that's where they stayed in that little
local area,

ild

it just opened up a whole new world for me. A new branch of

friends and the chance for an education.

I

owe everything to this college

for my life. I just love this place. Really I do. It's just that I'm not

w

(30)

;,,Jb

ii-tqnostalgia, and I'm not into reminiscing too much. I have all these
family things going on and I'm geared into that. And I feel that kind of
ended here and

B

Sure. You had that chapter and now you're into a new chapter, and that's
how

t/

I'm on with my life.

it ought to be.

w

Yes, that's the way

B:

So did you stay with this family for the whole four years?

w

No-

it

is-

dad

I stayed with them for two years. Then my mother and ilry

had worked

and saved some money so they could pay for my tuition and then

I got a job

,-{,rl ''f"''

t/

inthedininghall.Thedieticianwas-."Shqvasastrictperson
\

t' ,t'

, '

B

No food fights in the dining room.

w

Oh, good gnef, she ruled that dining room. Well, anyway,
her, and she knew

I didn't

have much money to come and go on, and she gave

me all these extra jobs in the dining hall.
and do

I worked there for

I

used to run the dishwasher

all these things for her. I'd get up at six in the morning and help

her. But

if

you slipped and made a mistake, oh, look out.

I

can remember one

time we, lrtis was back in my college days now, I had to carry trays, big trays.
They were all served their meals at one time, and you had to carry these big

/

trays out and set them
table-

Oo*"\

and pass the plates out to the people at the

I don't know what mistake I
.

made.

I served it from

the wrong side, and

t j ..

she came out, and she embarrased me so much in front of the whole dining hall

(31)

W:

about how I wasn't doing something right. She was as kind hearted as whatever,

but shejust had a firm ...

B:
\Y:
B:

t'

W:

It

had to be done right.

Yes,

it had to be done right- Oh, don't make a mistake.

Like the RitzLrrr:e

Yes. When I was a student here, at one time there

fiq

t.
only nine men on campus.

That was back during the war. Maybe that's why I'm not marriedrthere weren't
any men around. But anyway, then later, the air corps came in and there were

five hundred men, but we used to have to serve them in the dining hall, too.
Those guys were not satisfied with one plate- So

t/

of guys right here they'd eat like pigs they'd

if I'm waiting on the table

j-:-ttn"

;, .a ..'. .,

'.

place alt up;Q0t back

out there and get us some more. So I'd have to go back out in the kitchen and

fight with the dietician and the cook that they didn't have enough to eat, they
needed more. Oh, what a battle

it was with those guys- It

was really something.

That's back in my college days.
ri

So you lived in the dorm and

VB
w

had.{l;{*'

i+

i}d'

After I moved out for two years and I moved in the dorm and worked in the
kitchen. That was how I could make it.

B:

And probably at a very small hourly rate, I'm sure.

w

I'm sure. I don't remember-

B:

Minimum wage.

w

Oh, gosh, it would have been, I don't have any idea.

:

.

(32)
B:

Did you get your meals because you worked in the cafeteria?

W:

Yes- We got the meals- I don't know how we did get paid- I can't remember that-

They may have paid part of our tuition. I'm not sure how that worked out at that

time- I know I put a lot of hours in that kitchen- She didn't let every student
run that dishwasher.
B:

It was a special responsibility.

W:

I

B:

Well, you worked really a lot of hours then because you had your studying to do.

W:

Oh, yes. Same way when I worked with the Miller family. I worked for them-

was special. Running the dishwasher. Those are interesting days, too.

She was crippled. She had a brace on her leg and could walk, but her arm was

useless and

it

was

in a sling.

I

can't remember

happened to her. Her speech was affected, and

if

she had a stroke

or what

I really had all of the care

of those two kids, really, she couldn't do an5rthing for them. Combing their
hair, and seeing that they got their baths, washing and ironing for them, and
housecleaning. I put in a lot of hours in those first two years with that

family trying to help them.

t/

B:

Then you were the housekeeper?

W:

I was the housekeeper

B:

And going to school full-time.

Iil:

Right. It was tough.

B:

Did you have any time for any extrQurricular activities?

W:

I really

and taking care of those two kids.

had to ask them for time to participate in hockey and some of those

(33)

w

sports- I had to ask them to release some time for that because that was my

field of study. I had to have that. I had to get that in. So they were kind
enough to let me do some events like that. But those tight days we always had

to go to Sunday evening vespers- All students had to go to that at the chapel.

ri.A

B

Did they take'fole?

W:

No. But they told you you were to go there, you went there- Once a week we'd
',1

have chapel- We'd have more or less an all

r y.

l.i f ;.; .
business reporting and

c@gg

whatever- Everybody went. They were obligated

y1
B:

t/

W:

checked

*. ffjl"ou

to go and they did. No one

just went to that- That's when the chapel was there-

I remembel sssing that.

-il"r.t -rjf e;i

'la For."-l
nsis(*ilg:ocildirg our money into this University Advancement thing, but they
want to put all that money into West Hall and EasUWest Gym.

put money into something,
a beautiful building.

I wish they could've

If they wanted to

sayed the chapel.

It

was such

I don't how much money I put into trying to get people

to save that- Donate twenty dollars to save the chapel. I guess it was frrll of
termites or something and they couldn't saye

B:

I

saw the chapel, but

People have said that

(

it. Did you ever see that?

I don't thitrk it was in use when I

it

was on campus-

was in dangerous condition.

W:

It was a beautifril building. I

B:

rtell, they could'ye restored it if

guess they couldn't restore

they'd

{

it.

nad a yery generous donor-

Millions and millions- But we don't have that kind of alumni.

ril:

I thought when they put Miller Auditorium in, they stuck it there at that

(34)

W:

frtnny angle, they always said West Hall was going down in six months, now a
year, now two years, and now here they are donating money to restore West Hall,

I think it's like

I

a sore thumb sitting down there.

@in*-

@
B:

It's not very pretty.
-/rn"

w

I

was hoping they were going to take that thing down- W ithnemphasis we've had

here on physical educational use,

I don't know why they couldn't have torn down

East/West Gym and put a whole new complex in there. I would be glad to donate
money for that, but

I gave them

some money to restore

it.

You know Martha

/'u uaverstic($en they were renovating the West Gym at one time or another, she
V

went up in the Ualcon{V that had been condemned, of course, and took some of
the fancy cut spiral spokes, rungs, that were holding up the side of the track
up there. She took them and she made them into candle holders and she gave them

**M
B:

around to all these Slippery Rock xlnmni that graduated from here. Here's part
West Gym. Pat Zimmermatr came

of

in 1961, I think.

Yes, Pat Zimmerman is on our list to talk to. I'm glad she's still in the areaShe's not moving away. We can get her background also.

After the department became a little larger, did things get a little better

for the women?

,/tz
/B:

/w

w

Yes.

If I could thint of this man's trame. NeUlefin, Dr. Netilefon.

He came after Dr. Pauhfn?

He came after

Paulfo.

,"

came in when the

field house was in. When he came

(35)

w

the women's needs and so on- Then

l/ L/
v,

he was an excelleot administrator. He had a yery open mind and would listen to

t/'

into the Field

the faculty expanded

\n

\

or"e we got

HrrrOGy could handle more classes and whateyer, and the thing
++*

expanded and he was very receptive to ideas that women wanted and we hired a lot

V

i

more women for teaching and all that just kind of opened up and was much better,

I thought. You taft to
but

I thought it

still talk about prejudices n"r"

some people they

*o#*

was such a dramatic change for me, they didn't know what was

before. It got better. But, yes, once we moved into the Field House and we got
teachers that were specialists in their areas and we had more facilities and your

,/

teaching situation changed. lYe had some changes in philosophy or *fateveeyou

t/

$rtla.selL

t/

they said, here's what we'rgstress and teach, do this and do that.

philosophy of teaching.

ra,".

went along with what they said.

,/

I

If

and

I always

always went along with department rules and

regulations and change. It was not that

r'V

we ever had a

I

was always happy with the philosopfyr.

tfraltLeydidb 6ut in the later years they went into some philosophy asd-

*

teaching that was supposed to stress problem solving and individualized

t//

t/

instruction and things of this sortnthat to meitt left the faculty person not

':)

in close enoughftra relationship with the students- As a philosophy of teaching.
Okay. And the emphasis was all on put the learning responsibility on to the
student and

let them solve some of these problems themselves and be more

involved in their learning. Which sounds good on paper, but when you go to do

it I thitrk then

you put a faculty in supervising all of this stuff going on.

(36)

w

It's not like a hands on teaching

and the rapport with the students.

It's

different.
B

I

was wondering about that, too. How can students solve problems

have the background to solve them?

t/

perhaps they can cope with

w

All

along

I

thought

it

If

youhs

if

they don't

give them the background then

it.

sounded

like maybe there was some hope for it, but

whenever a department puts in a policy and

it's changed, if the thing is not

evaluated in a year or so and they don't change

it again, and go on and on

with it, I think that's a mistake. I don't think that system, philosophy,
worked. But

I did my very best to go along with it, but it

with my teaching situation because I didn't like it,

,//

made me unhappy

!L{ t check with the

public schools now and I haven't heard of any public school that's even into
this at all right now. When I think of the years and years we drilled that into
our students going out to use this problem solving approach and to let them
figure out how to shoot a basketball by giving them instruction, not you
showing them or demonstrating or have

it written down and let them follow

and

solve their own problem, that kind of approac6,'f have never seen anybody out

in the public schools doing that. So it sounded like there was some hope for
that philosophy, but I didn't like that system at all.
B:

Who imposed that style?

W:

Well, that's when [Robenl Aebersold came. It was his departmentrtrt*rcS1C

(37)
B:

I heard it

w

By committee. Right, a committee. Who was the guy that came in, they hired

was done by committee

for that, I think

t/

he

just retired in Bufler.

B:

lYell, the Athletic Director was Bill Lennox.

w

No, not

w

And

I don't think it's in effect now. I'm

ten years so

sure-

I haven't

been up here in

I'm sure it's gone by now that whole philosophy. But I

was not

too happy with that style of teaching.

until you retired?

B:

Was that used then

w

Yes-

B:

lYhich was when?

w

1984.

B:

You were here from 1957 to 19E4 on the faculty. And as a student, what were
those years?

w
,,/

1943

to 1947. It was ten years later that I

ten years in public school at Clarion High
Then

came back to Slippery Rock.

S"hoolffion

I spent

Junior High.

I came back home to George Washington Junior High, and here's lYilma

[CavilU over here at Ben Franklin Junior High.

/

B:

Wilma is going to ouflast everybody.

w

Yes,

B:

Yes, she is. And some of the later faculty. Who were some that had a big

I think so. She's happy probably.

(38)

B:
\il:

influence on the department o.

o{

the program.

rilell, I think, Bob Aebersold was a fantastic administrator- I thought he did
./

t/

a fantastic

job. I hated it when he went over there to Old Main.

$r^drq

Bob, what are you doing leaving us here like this? I thought he did a fantastic

job. I really liked Bob

as an administrator, and

I liked

She came in after that.

I thought

job. I never

she did a great

trouble getting along with the administration.

If

Anne Griffiths, too.
had too much

you do your job, and they set

up rules, and you follow them, and you do your job, you just go with the flow

and you don't have problems with them.

t/
t/

I

hear people griping about the

tcaaL;,*
ind forget about them.

admininstrators, well, just go do your ctrrryieg
B:

You can do your own thing.

w

Do your own thing unless they set up a ruletq

da
it, but then just don't get all

tangled up. I think the administrators are bugging you

if

you don't do your

job, but if you do your job then they're off your back. So just do the best
job you can and don't worry about the administrators. Just go with the flow.
B

After Dr. Weisenfluh were there any presidents that had any particular influence
,.?
on youf,*ri

w

Oh, there were some horrible presidents come in here.

B:

Well, let's hear about some of them.

w

Okay,

B:

He wasn't here, but I've heard stories about him.

w

He was something else. Nobody liked him. Everybody was very critical

I'll tell you one. Carter. Do you remember

him?

of

(3e)

ril: Dr. Carter. I can remember I had gone down tol[,Y'U"
r.lmi)-o

,/

master's courses, and
thought

I

taken a few post

I thought, I don't want to go for this doctorate thing. I

have other things

I want to do. I can't

see this-

I could

see

it wasn't

going to help me that much- So I thought I'm not going to put that time and effort

into this thing. I was just going to stride along and go with

,./

it. And he was

fresident, and we were all at a faculty meeting over in Miller Auditorium, and

I'll

never forget

it. I was influenced by what he said- I guess other people

let it go in one ear and out the other, You go get your doctorates! If you want
to teach something.

If

you want to teach here, get yourself back there and get

those degrees. Otherwise, pack up and get out. Pound and humph, humph, humph.

t/4

Everybody erse

i, rk$%Yr*.1",,

heart. I really did. But

$*:H;#.ti*u,

took it to

I talked a lot to Dr. Nettleton, who was the chair of

our department, I think this was later- But when I had talked to Dr- Nettleton,
he was always telling me to go down where he got his degree

t/

George Peabody. He said, go down there and get your degree.

around.

I didn't know if I

I

in Nashville at
ar^f*
hemmednhawed

wanted to do that. But when Carter got up there,

get your degrees or get out, that kind of a thing, stomping. Next summer I just
traipsed right down to Nashville and checked it out and that's when I started really

seriously to work on my doctorate. That's where

I got my degree at Peabody

(

College. I was influenced by Nettleton really.be."use whe- I

(

didn't want to go to Pitt or some big place. I got my master's at t{,YrU"and I
didn't want to go back there. Too much in the city stuff.

urcndeur cn;ul

(40)
B:

So Peabody, you did that by going in the summers?

w

Summers. I took a year off- I had one year- I had to put in a v""1" residency down
there- In summers, yes, that's when I went down and got that- Whenever that was.

t/

{96,0Tf 1972, maybeB

4rr^AWere you finally glad that you had db,xg that?

}V:

No, not really.

B:

It didn't make much difference in your life?

w

No. It was when all my nieces and nephews were growing up when I wanted to do
things with them. And

m

"amping

always resented

I

was restricted also those

vital years when I could have

and could have done this and could have done that, and

it. I hate those old degrees-

I

have

The time you have to spend on them-

I'm not a natural student or whatever. It's not like I was forced to go- I did it
because

I thought I

needed

it to hold my job. It certainly puts you in a better

retiqhent bracket. It did that.

rtA

I was not oo" tn"ffioenced Uy,'8}h,

you have

a doctorate's degree. Isn't that wonderful. The heck with those degrees.

I don't

know- Is this all being recorded?
B

Yes, but you can restrict

it if you want. But it's refreshing. It's really

interesting.

w

I am not impressed by the fact that I have a degree. I'm out of this institution, and

I'm oyer here in this world, and this world doesn't even know I have a degree, and
that's the way I want
here.

it. It belongs

over here. This is where

it

meant something

(41)

t/

B:

Right, but other people were impressed-

w

Wear their caps

not think
do- And

0b

forevelif they think it's an important achievement. I did

it was an important

achievement.

I thought it was a thing I had to

I did not want to do it. I would rather

nieces camping.

have taken my nephews and

I would rather have gone as this little student did out to

Colorado and spent my summer hiking on some mountain and now I'm too old to

t/

get there and do
me at

5:+

it. I resent having done it. I resent it.$rrever impressed

all. I got a gold tassel on a cap for graduation. Fantastic.

B:

It didn't make you a better teacher?

w

It did not.

B:

Or a better person?

w

It did not- I couldn't do statistics.

t/

Okay? Let's face

it. I hate statistics. I hate

all math stuff. I took the first two statisti/ourses which were
there and barely got through

a requirement down

it. I had to take two more or I could take

French. I took French. And I got up at five o'clock in the morning for two years

t/

before classes started and studied French from five

till /class

at eight o'clock.

I studied French. Do you know what t think of French? t hate French. You didr't
h'cadt *a
have to pass a speaking test. You just had to pass a grammar kind of

interpretation kind of a test like that. So I can't even say

t'

lLr-rw

d

*-k

and d
,r=i,

."

You didn't have to say a thing. You just had to be able to read and interprete it.

I hate French.
B

And probably you didn't really need

it for anything that you did.

(42)

w

Nothing. It was a discipline thing. [t was actually a discipline thing.
And when it came to the statistics, which I thought was the most horrible thing

in the world, when I came to do my study, it was loaded with statistics, but I

I don't understand all the other statistics in the

understood my statistics.

world, but when I had to use it for my studies, I understood that- That was
meaningfrrl to me what

I got out of it, but try to pass all of the statistics

l/

"oorgft",

B:

rilhat was the subject of your dissertation?

stupid

W: I did an evaluation of the physical education program at Slippery Rock over
ct
4E*A'L
t'- .-/ a ten year period. I€esd
remember tls *het+o'-rtotright now. Based on
,,/ ln'

graduatef students'opinions. An
checked

opinionfl

questionnaire went out where they

off what their opinions were about their background and their education

and things of that sort.

It

was frrn to do. Hearing and getting replies back from

t'14f

your students and whatever an{thef were

//,/

'"riu}6tni"s

specific about you,

but they were saying about the department and what their background was. Most

of them were B status, but they thought it was good, But you got some that
said

it

was excellent and some thought

it

was lousy.

It

was good, and the nice

thing about it was the department used it to do some changes and to make some
course offerings and things like that.

B:

Then

W:

Yes. They used

it

was really valuable?

Teaching or

if

it. They

said we were short and we needed more in Methods

of

we needed more this or less of this and they were saying things

(43)

w

things like that, and they did use it.

B:

I'm glad to hear that.

w

Yes-

B:

Tell us a little bit about what you're doing now. I have heard about this
garden and

w

t/

I'm going to come see it.

Well, I hope you do- My mother is still living with me. That's why

I\"k'r-e

to get out of here pretty soon. I couldn't find anybody to sit with her.

I don't like to leave her alone. She's 9l
I don't. I usually

will

have somebody who

I don't like to leave her.

and

come in and sit with her but

I

couldn't find anybody today so I just left her there. She gets around alright, it's
just that I don't like to leave her. At

t/

9.1

you have everything wrong with you. But

;t 7rne**c.rC o^I am doing all the things thl$ the summers I

spent working on my doctorate and

down there griping because I couldn't be home doing these things. I'm doing them

now. I-andscaping things. Wishing wells and waterfalls and flowers. I raise all
my own flowers. Starting the first of March,
greenhouse room, kind of a sunroom.

I

I start inside. I have a little

start all my seeds in there.

I can't travel.

I can't go away. I'm tied down. I can't really get up and go.
B:

I hear you do go canoeing.

w

Oh, yes- Once in a while on a weekend. Yes, once in a while
weekend, but

I

mean

I can't go on bus trips

B

Susie.

take off the

here and bus trips there. Yes, right.

Who did you hear that from? Susie rnieqimf

{

I'll

(44)
W:

Oh, yes-

I'll

miss her.

I saw her the other night. She was here for

a day so

I

got a chance to see her- I need to get some time next summer, next spring, and go

up to her place, and help her do some landscaping.

I've got four acres,

I told her I would. But

ild I kind of just go crazy there. I'll never get done.

Never finished. I could just go, go, go, go. I'm out there at eight-thirqr when

dark in the summertime. Nine-thirty

I

it's

have to come in.

B:

Besides the flowers, do you do vegetables?

W:

Oh, yes. We freeze. And fruit trees. We freeze all of our vegetables for winterCanning and freezing. We do all that.

I'm involved with all my nephews

and

nieces.

t/

B:

Do you have lots of them?

W:

No, not too many. But one niecgljust in the process of moving into her new home.

Al

She and her husband. Her husband is a carpenter, and he

built it. So I've been

helping them a lot this summer- They did all their own painting, and I helped
them with that.

All the stain of all their woodwork. They put in two acres of

grass seed. Two acres.

B:

I'm not sure that's wise.

W:

I know. I don't know how they're going to cut it. I think I'm going to be out there
cutting it too. But when you put gfass in, you have to put fertilizer, lime, rake all
those things

in. Seed. Rake it in. Straw. It was a tremendous project to do that.

I don't know how they're going to take care of that. My other niece is moving in

,/

Thanksgiving weekend. That's just down in Cranberry. So

I'll

be down therc.

ffi

(45)

W:

She had

I'll

,r/

all of her work taken care of. The inside work. But the moving process,

help her with that- So I'm just involved with them-

tkiEgil

71,*_

, d*rq.e

two nephews in the area, and helping them out, I like to do physical things.

B:

With the canoeing, Susie said, I think, that you had students?

lY:

We took two neighbor boys. Sixteen year olds. They had never gone camping

or canoeing. We went down. Susie and I every year went down the Allegheny

River. We always did that. This time we happened to take the two boys.

B:

From where to where?

W:

Usually go up to Franklin. Put in at Franklin. Have somebody drop us off there
and go down about halfway. There's an island. And then just camp out on the
island.

B:
ril:

Stay overnight?

Yes. Stay overnight. Then go down to Emlenton. Take out at Emlenton. We used

to do that every year-

B:

Do you own the canoes?

W:

Susie has them. Yes.

I

have a niece that loves to do that kind of stuff. We go

down. We do a lot of bicycling. Our favorite trip is to take two days. That's all
we can get off because she's busy and

I can't leave home that long. We go down

to Ohiopyle. Have you ever been down there? It's just beautiful down there. Stay
at the state park, and one day we take a rubber, they call them duckies, sort of

like a rubber canoe, and we don't go into the real rough water. rte go up to the
mid-Yough and we do about a five hour, or four hour, paddle. They take your

(46)

w

canoe in a truck and dump you out, and you paddle down and shoot the rapidsThen the next day we bicycle on the bike trails. There are two nice bike trails
down there. Very nice. Then another weekend we might go up to Oil Creek State

Park- That's another beautiful place, too, up there. Stay at a campground and

just bicycle for two days up and down the trail. And I have a bicycle trail
right near my house. About a mile from my house. So I get out there at least once
a week and bike on that

trail. It's about eight miles out and eight back. About

sixteen mile trail.

/

B:

How long does that take you?

w

It takes about

B:

Sixteen miles?

w

Yes.

B:

You're in very good shape.

w

It's

d'il'

**flat

an hour and twenty minutes to do that.

though. Moraine Park has a nice trail, too. They're easy

biking. They're made along the beds of an old railroad track. So they
definitely are not up and down hill- Pat Zimmerman comes over and goes

biking once in a while with me.
B:

She has her own bike?

w

She has her own bike. She comes over once in a while and we get together

and bike, or meet down at Moraine and bike. That's the kind of vacation

I like.
B

So

life is treating you well?

a

(47)

w

Yes. Very well.

B:

Well, you were good for Slippery Rock and I'm glad things are working out
well for you.

w

t/

Right. As

I say I don't come back very often. I'll tell you I come

back for

Alumni Day when my roommate gets after me- My college roommate( io nri".
B:

And who is that?

w

Marty Schaaf. She's been president of the Alumni Association different times.
Martha Schaaf- She's been president on different occasions. I see her once in
a while. Once a year we used to get together. But when she bugs me about
coming back,

much.

I'll

come back with her on Alumni Day. Otherwise,

I see Anne and Pat once in a while.

I'm not up here

We get together on birthdays or

something. They usually come oyer. They're very nice. Exceptionally nice to

my mother and they always ask her to come

if

we go out to eat. For a birthday

you know you don't think of dragging along a 9l year old lady, but they are very
nice to her and they always ask her to go, and she's just thrilled to death

to go out with them- Exceptionally nice.
B:

So they were special friends in the department.

w

Yes- They lived beside me out on Kiester Road there for a while- They had
a house out there, and

I

done things with them.

t/

had gone camping with them different times and

I can't follow

I'd

them on these trips that they take

M1

lately though. Every year at Christmas time they go down to 'oore-IAruba?'
B:

Oh, to one of the islands.

(48)

W:

,/

Aruba and

I can't think of some of those islands that they go to- Too

classy of a vacation,

I

ffit

b

r,t.a- ,

B:

They don't camp.

W:

No. I think they're going to Cancun this year. I think they were talking about
a

Cancun. Some big resort place like that. Susie

Knteilq is more my style of
\**/

type of recreation. Things to do. Sleep out in the tent. Susie has a nice little
camper she pulls along back of her car. We used to go in that tooB:

Oh, that's a little more civilized.

w

Yes, a little more civilized than sleeping on the ground in a tent. You have to

really like camping to do that. My niece is so busy right now. She's graduated
from Slippery Rock in physical education and when she was going to school here
as a student she stayed out here on Kiester Road

with me, and then she taught

down at Seneca Valley.
B:

What is her name?

w

Terry Flynn. Now she's got her certification as a principal. Now she is
matriculated for a doctorate in administration and she is an assistant principal
at Hampton Intermediate School out

\e

on Route E. She's really busy.

Teaching and taking courses. Not much time to do anything.

likes to do the things
B

t/

t/

I miss her. She

I like to do.

I needed someone to inspire

me when

I

was younger- lYhen

I went camping

one

twlUJ

time. I was at a camp and we went out overnight with our blanket rdlcs. We
Or

didn't have sleeping bags. Somebody wasn't watching us and I slept in^patch of

(4e)

B:

poison ivy and I was so

W:

Oh, gosh. That would be terrible-

B:

But I never got poison ivy again.

W:

Oh, really. You got such a bad dose of it.

B:

But I needed someone like you to help me with that.

sick.@

lVell, we really do appreciate your coming. It was so interesting-

W:

You're making me think of things I haven't thought of in a long time,

I'll

tell you. Your questions made me think of a lot of things. A lot of things.

Hey, it did this. It did- It made me start thinking. I'm not really showing
my appreciation for that.

,

#'l"I"n

l.A&

know

H *" capital gains campaign *a:I00 old Main. I saw that

u""fu

on something. But

lr/

I'd better get helping out here a little bit.

I

don't even know where the Women's Athletic Scholarship

B:

We'll get our secretary to put the right address on it before you leave.

W:

Oh, okay. Then I can drop it in the campus mail- Fantastic. That's great.

,t

\
\

\